French Aircraft Competitions

[hesham]

Hi,
I found that the comptetions of aircraft were having a great numbers of projects of aircraft.so, I will send some of these comptetions and
their aircraft contenders.

 

[raravia]

Great

Shoot it!

Raravia

 

[hesham]

when I spoke about french aircraft competitions, I mean that I will
tell about some of it and please help me to remember
any aircraft or projects I forget it.

1921 C1 (single seat fighter): De Marcay type-4,Dewoitine D-1;D-8,
Gourdou et Leseurre GL-31;GL-40,Hanriot HD-26;HD-27,
Letord-Bechereau LB-2,Wibault Wib-3.

1923 C1 (single seat fighter):Buscaylet-Bechereau BB-2,Dewoitine
D-9;D-12;D-19,loire-Gourdou et Leseurre LGL-32,Hanriot HD-31,
Nieuport Ni-42;Ni-44;Ni-46,Wibault Wib-7;Wib-9.

1925 C2 (two seat fighter):Bleriot-Spad S-60;S-70,De Monge M-101,
Dewoitine D-25,Hanriot HD-33,Potez P-31,Salmson-Bechereau SB-5,
Wibault Wib-8,Levasseur PL-6.

 

[hesham]

please forgive me about my imperfect English,I will complete and if any one know any
contenders in these competitions I don't mention it please tell us.

1926 C1 [sigle seat light weight fighter(Jockey program)]:Amiot model-110,Bernard-20,Gourdou et Leseurre GL-351,Morane-Saulnier MS-121;
MS-221,Nieuport Ni-48,Wibault Wib-13;Wib-15;Wib-160;Wib-170,
Bleriot-Spad S-91,Dewoitine D-27.

1928 C1 (single sear fighter):Wibault Wib-210;Wib-270,Gourdou et
Leseurre GL-410;GL-450.

1930 C1 (single seat fighter):Mureaux ANF-170,Bleriot-Spad S-510,
Dewoitine D-370;D-500;D-560,Gourdou et Leseurre GL-482,Hanriot
H-110,Loire-43,Morane-Saulnier MS-275,Nieuport Ni-120,Wibault
Wib-313,Bernard-260.

 

[Archibald]

If you are interested by some strange french prototypes of the 30's (and there was many!!!) just look here (at "constructeurs")http://www.aviafrance.com/aviafrance1.php
Hope you'll enjoy this website, there's some photos of the fighters you mentionned

 

[hesham]

I will complete,

1934 C1 single seat fighter:Bleriot-Spad S-710,Bloch MB-150,Dewoitine
D-513,Loire-250,Loire-Nieuport LN-161 and Morane-Saulnier MS-405.

1934 C3 three-seat fighter:Hanriot H-220,Potez P-630,Breguet Br-690,
Loire-Nieuport LN-20 and Romano-110.

1936 C1 single seat lightweight fighter:Bloch-700,Caudron C-713,Arsenal
VG-30 and ANF-190.

1937 C1 single seat fighter:Morane-Saulnier MS-450,SNCAO-200,Dewoitine
D-520,Caudron CR-760;CR-770 and CR-780.

1937 C3 three-seat fighterotez P-670 ,Hanriot H-220-2,SNCASE SE-100
and anther two projects ;Payen Pa-323 and Caudron C-900.

 

[Archibald]

This was the main problem with the Ada : the awful numbers of fighters type! The British were far more cleaver, and just made TWO fighters, the Hurricane and Spitfire.. One day i was reading a magazine which counted no less than 20 types of french fighters! and don't forget that france bought loads of P-38, P-39 and P-40! There was four main types in service - P-36, MB-152, MS-406, D-520- and plenty others were coming, Potez 670 heavy fighter, Arsenal VG-33 and the like...

 

[hesham]

I heard that in Air Pictorial magazine of March,April and May for the year 1970,
there were a lot of projects of aircraft I don't know any think about it, only a piston engined aircraft
just like : Amiot-170,Amiot-360,Amiot-380,Morane-Saulnier MS-460,Potez-702,SNCAC NC-550,SNCAO-420 and SNCAO-900.
CAN ANY ONE GIVE ME A MORE INFORMATIONS ABOUT THEM.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Hesham- consider this a warning. Creating large lists of projects and demanding information on them without contributing anything of your own is basically asking others to do all your work for you.

It would be helpful if you could

1) Limit yourself. Look into projects from a certain manufacturer to start with, don't just list dozens of different projects all at once.
2) Give sources. Where did you get the project information from? What books have you already consulted for information?
3) Contribute. Have you got some information about a project? Post it! Then, when you ask for information on another project, people will feel more inclined to pull down their books from the shelves and invest their time in looking for you.
4) If your English is poor, post in French. I don't mind, I'm reasonably good at reading French anyway. Or post in whichever language is your native language.

 

[Nick Sumner]

If you wish to get hold of these copies of Air Pictorial look here

http://www.payhost.net/aviation/acatalog/Air_Pic_1970.html

I have the three magazines you mention and the articles are well worth reading, the drawings are good too.

 

[hesham]

Dear,Nick Sumner,
if the drawings are good please send it.

 

[Nick Sumner]

Here is an extract from Air Pictorial March 1970, the article is entitled French Projects 1940 by Jean Liron and Malcolm Passingham.

"Under the direction of Paul Deplante, brother of Henri Deplante, the technical director of the Bordeaux-Aéronautique complex of the S.N.C.A.S.O., four "private venture" projects appeared in 1939. Of these, three were for fighters and one a commercial type. The first, the MB.1010, was a monoplane evolved from the Bloch 150. Proposed powerplant was the 1,470¬h.p. Pratt & Whitney R-1830 SIA-4G, fitted with a Bloch three-bladed airscrew, and the fighter had an estimated maximum speed of 447.4 m.p.h. (720 km./h.). Arma¬ment was to have been two Hispano cannon and eight MAC machine-guns. Albert Caquot, who was at that time Director of Industrial Production, was very interested in this machine and carried out a detailed examination of its structure at the Bordeaux factory, but the developments of June 1940 halted all work on the MB.1010. A slightly smaller version, designated the MB.1011 and intended to have a Gnôme-Rhône 14 N49 engine, remained in the design stage.

"The Bloch 1040 was the two-seat version of the 1010 with the same engine and armament, but with the addition of a four¬gun dorsal turret similar to that on the Boulton Paul Defiant. Unfortunately, no time remained to permit construction of % this two-seat fighter to be commenced.

"As for the commercial aircraft, it was projected as the Bloch 1020 for Air France. From this low-wing design-with its in¬tended 2,000 h.p. and weight of 10 tons, its proposed speed of 279.6 m.p.h. (450 km./h.) with twenty passengers and two crew-the SO.30P "Bretagne" was later developed. By June 1940 only the fuselage of the Bloch 1020 was completely finished at Bordeaux-Aéronautique."

I hope this helps and that I succeed in attaching the file with the pictures.

 

[hesham]

Hi,

Anther competition for the two seat seaplane fighter for
the French Navy in 1925,the contenders were not completely
known,only the Bleriot-118 and Besson MB.26C.2 were known,
does anyone know the other rivals ?.

 

[hesham]

Thank you again my dear Tophe;


Here is the Percheron P-XVIII ,the competitor to Besson MB-24.

 

[hesham]

Thank you my dear Tophe,

and may be it was experimental seaplane fighter for 1922
competition,the tenders were CAMS-31 and Bleriot-101
as I think.

Also the Besson MB-26 and LeO H-10 were submitted
to the same competition as Besson MB-24.

 

[hesham]

Excellent my dear Tophe,

Also the Besson MB-30 was a project for 1928 competition,the
tenders were;Latecoere L-290,SPCA-20,LeO H-257,NiD-50,CAMS-52
Latecoere L-440 and Villiers-26.

And may be the FBA.26 project submitted to this tender.

 

[hesham]

now we know the 1934
contenders;

Latecoere-570
Romano-120
LeO-45
Amiot-340
Dewoitine-331
Bernard-90

 

[Caravellarella]

I'd jump-for-joy if someone could show a picture of the Bloch MB 1020 airliner please

I've only ever seen one picture; the abandoned fuselage of the MB 1020 behind the MB 300 prototype and mock-up in Fana de l'Aviation No. 460.....

Terry (Caravellarella)

 

[hesham]

May be this can help;

there was old problem,that SNCASO had no sense in appearing
the SO.90 before SO.30,and I suggest this solution as Bloch's
models were appeared respectively ;

Bloch MB.800 became SNCASO SO.80
Bloch MB.900 became ,, SO.90
Bloch MB.1010 became ,, SO.10
Bloch MB.1011 became ,, SO.11
Bloch MB.1020 became ,, SO.20
Bloch MB.1030 became ,, SO.30
Bloch MB.1040 became ,, SO.40

 

[Grey Havoc]

Link to French Projects 1940 thread.

 

[hesham]

when I spoke about french aircraft competitions, I mean that I will
tell about some of it and please help me to remember
any aircraft or projects I forget it.

1921 C1 (single seat fighter): De Marcay type-4,Dewoitine D-1;D-8,
Gourdou et Leseurre GL-31;GL-40,Hanriot HD-26;HD-27,
Letord-Bechereau LB-2,Wibault Wib-3.

1923 C1 (single seat fighter):Buscaylet-Bechereau BB-2,Dewoitine
D-9;D-12;D-19,loire-Gourdou et Leseurre LGL-32,Hanriot HD-31,
Nieuport Ni-42;Ni-44;Ni-46,Wibault Wib-7;Wib-9.

1925 C2 (two seat fighter):Bleriot-Spad S-60;S-70,De Monge M-101,
Dewoitine D-25,Hanriot HD-33,Potez P-31,Salmson-Bechereau SB-5,
Wibault Wib-8,Levasseur PL-6.

Hi,


1921 C1 (single seat fighter): De Marcay type-4,Dewoitine D-1;D-8,
Gourdou et Leseurre GL-31;GL-40,Hanriot HD-26;HD-27,
Letord-Bechereau LB-2,Wibault Wib-3.
Plus Hanriot HD-12,Nieuport Ni-37 and Spad S.81,and may be
Potez-XVI (Potez-16).


1923 C1 (single seat fighter):Buscaylet-Bechereau BB-2,Dewoitine
D-9;D-12;D-19,loire-Gourdou et Leseurre LGL-32,Hanriot HD-31,
Nieuport Ni-42;Ni-44;Ni-46,Wibault Wib-7;Wib-9.
Plus Breguet Br.24,Dewoitine D-13 and Spad S.43.


1925 C2 (two seat fighter):Bleriot-Spad S-60;S-70,De Monge M-101,
Dewoitine D-25,Hanriot HD-33,Potez P-31,Salmson-Bechereau SB-5,
Wibault Wib-8,Levasseur PL-6.
Plus Avimeta-88,ANF Mureaux-3,ANF Mureaux-4,Villiers-24,Wibault
Wib-12 & Wib-121,Salmson-Bechereau SB-6 and Nieuport Ni-47.

 

[hesham]

1926 C1 [sigle seat light weight fighter(Jockey program)]:Amiot model-110,Bernard-20,Gourdou et Leseurre GL-351,Morane-Saulnier MS-121;
MS-221,Nieuport Ni-48,Wibault Wib-13;Wib-15;Wib-160;Wib-170,
Bleriot-Spad S-91,Dewoitine D-27.

1928 C1 (single sear fighter):Wibault Wib-210;Wib-270,Gourdou et
Leseurre GL-410;GL-450.

1930 C1 (single seat fighter):Mureaux ANF-170,Bleriot-Spad S-510,
Dewoitine D-370;D-500;D-560,Gourdou et Leseurre GL-482,Hanriot
H-110,Loire-43,Morane-Saulnier MS-275,Nieuport Ni-120,Wibault
Wib-313,Bernard-260.

Hi,


1926 C1 [sigle seat light weight fighter(Jockey program)]:Amiot model-110,Bernard-20,
Gourdou et Leseurre GL-351,Morane-Saulnier MS-121;MS-221,Nieuport Ni-48,Wibault
Wib-13;Wib-15;Wib-160;Wib-170,Bleriot-Spad S-91,Dewoitine D-27.
Plus Nieuport Ni-49.


1928 C1 (single sear fighter):Wibault Wib-210;Wib-270,Gourdou et
Leseurre GL-410;GL-450.
Plus Loire-40,Loire-41,Loire-42,Bernard-70,Spad S.210,Spad S.310
and Dewoitine D-32.


1930 C1 (single seat fighter):Mureaux ANF-170,Bleriot-Spad S-510,
Dewoitine D-370;D-500;D-560,Gourdou et Leseurre GL-482,Hanriot
H-110,Loire-43,Morane-Saulnier MS-275,Nieuport Ni-120,Wibault
Wib-313,Bernard-260.
Plus Latecoere-510,Nieuport Ni-82,Ni-121 & Ni-122,Dewoitine D-47,
D-49,D-50,D-51 & D-52,Morane-Saulnier MS-420 & MS-520,Gourdou
et Leseurre GL-480 & GL-481 and G-422.

 

[hesham]

Also for 1930 competition;


1930 C1 (single seat fighter):Mureaux ANF-170,Bleriot-Spad S-510,
Dewoitine D-370;D-500;D-560,Gourdou et Leseurre GL-482,Hanriot
H-110,Loire-43,Morane-Saulnier MS-275,Nieuport Ni-120,Wibault
Wib-313,Bernard-260.
Plus Latecoere-510,Nieuport Ni-82,Ni-121 & Ni-122,Dewoitine D-47,
D-49,D-50,D-51 & D-52,Morane-Saulnier MS-420 & MS-520,Gourdou
et Leseurre GL-480 & GL-481 and G-422.


Those tenders were also involved; MS-224,MS-225,MS-275 and MS-325.

 

[hesham]

1934 C3 three-seat fighter:Hanriot H-220,Potez P-630,Breguet Br-690,
Loire-Nieuport LN-20 and Romano-110.

1934 C3 three-seat fighter: Hanriot H-220,Potez P-630,Breguet Br-690,
Loire-Nieuport LN-20 and Romano-110.
Plus Dewoitine D-630 and D-631,and may be Payen Pa.321.

 

[lark]

Extensive list Hesham but please, mention also your sources
i.e. the books, mag's,archives used to complile these lists.

Thanks.

 

[hesham]

1934 C3 three-seat fighter:Hanriot H-220,Potez P-630,Breguet Br-690,
Loire-Nieuport LN-20 and Romano-110.

1934 C3 three-seat fighter: Hanriot H-220,Potez P-630,Breguet Br-690,
Loire-Nieuport LN-20 and Romano-110.
Plus Dewoitine D-630 and D-631,and may be Payen Pa.321.

OK my dear Lark,


and for that last one,the sources are;


http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,4652.15.html
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,1475.0.html
http://www.hydroretro.net/indexen.html

 

[lark]

Thanks...

 

[hesham]

Hi,


for the competition T-3 of late 1930s,the main tenders were;


Potez-566,Potez-63/11,Potez-63/14,Potez-63/15 & Potez-220,SNCAO CAO.400,
Dewoitine D-670,D-671,D-700,D-720 & D-721,Hanriot H.240 (later became NC.510),
Romano R.111 (SNCASE SE.300),Caudron R-830,SNCAC NC.510,NC,511,NC.512,
NC.530,NC.540 & NC.550,Bloch MB.171,MB.500 & MB.800 and Caproni Ca.313.

 

[hesham]

Hi,


for the competition T-3 of late 1930s,the main tenders were;


Potez-566,Potez-63/11,Potez-63/14,Potez-63/15 & Potez-220,SNCAO CAO.400,
Dewoitine D-670,D-671,D-700,D-720 & D-721,Hanriot H.240 (later became NC.510),
Romano R.111 (SNCASE SE.300),Caudron R-830,SNCAC NC.510,NC,511,NC.512,
NC.530,NC.540 & NC.550,Bloch MB.171,MB.500 & MB.800 and Caproni Ca.313.

The source for the T-3 contest,Le FANA No 354.

 

[hesham]

Hi,


for 1930 contest for seaplane/flying boat transport aircraft,the main tenders
were;


Farman F.310
CAMS-58
Gourdou-Leseurre GL-710
Latecoere Late.501
LeO H-24
SPCA-60
Wibault Wib.240

 

[Stargazer2006]

1930 C1 (single seat fighter):
Mureaux ANF-170, Bleriot-Spad S-510, Dewoitine D-370, D-500, D-560, Gourdou et Leseurre GL-482, Hanriot H-110, Loire-43, Morane-Saulnier MS-275, Nieuport Ni-120, Wibault Wib-313, Bernard-260.
Plus Latecoere-510, Nieuport Ni-82, Ni-121 & Ni-122, Dewoitine D-47, D-49,D-50,D-51 & D-52, Morane-Saulnier MS-420 & MS-520, Gourdou et Leseurre GL-480 & GL-481 and G-422.
Those tenders were also involved; MS-224, MS-225, MS-275 and MS-325.

From Aero Journal No. 40:

 

[blackkite]

Hi! Bernard 260.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_260
"The Bernard 260 C1 was a French all-metal, single-engine, low-wing monoplane with an open cockpit and fixed undercarriage, designed to a government single-seat fighter specification issued in 1930. After extensive comparative tests the Dewoitine D.500 was ordered in preference, though the performances of the two aircraft were similar."

"The 260 was the most advanced aircraft of the group of prototypes, equipped with almost full-span Handley Page slots as well as flaps on its low cantilever wing. The wing plan was straight edge and square tipped, with most of the taper on the trailing edge, its whole span occupied by ailerons and flaps which could be lowered together."

"The Bernard 260 was powered by a 515 kW (691 hp) Hispano-Suiza 12Xbrs liquid cooled upright V-12 engine. Several different radiator arrangements were tried. For the first flight, made by Roger Baptiste in September 1932, a boxed chin radiator was used but was soon replaced by a pair of vertical units attached to the undercarriage legs. By November these had been replaced with a curved, open radiator under the engine, followed by yet another unsatisfactory system in January 1933. In March a retractable Villard-Ferlay radiator was fitted; this was used in the competitive tests.

In March 1933 the 260 was fitted with a sliding glass canopy, but the military feared the rear view would be lost and it was quickly removed. The height of the fin was increased to improve stall recovery. In June the slats were modified to open automatically. After losing its propeller in flight in July the 260, which landed safely, was significantly modified. The span was reduced by 1.25 m (4.1 ft) and a final radiator change was made. This involved an almost circular unit in front of the engine, with the propeller shaft emerging through it, above the centre. As a result the profile of the nose was considerably altered, appearing less streamlined. At about the same time, the 260 regained its wheel fairings. It first flew in this form on 4 October 1933."

http://www.aviastar.org/air/france/bernard_260.php
https://www.aviafrance.com/bernard-260-aviation-france-466.htm
http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/archive/index.php/t-17-p-32.html

 

[blackkite]

Hi! NiD-122.

https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nieuport-Delage_NiD-122

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nieuport-Delage_NiD-120
"The Nieuport-Delage NiD 120 series was a series of French single-seat parasol monoplane fighter aircraft of the 1930s. It was built in a number of versions, fitted with various types of engines, with six aircraft designated NiD 123 being sold to Peru."

Variants
Nieuport-Delage NiD 121 : Powered by one 670 hp (500 kW) Lorraine-Dietrich 12H engine. One built.
Nieuport-Delage NiD 122 : Powered by 690 hp (515 kW) Hispano-Suiza 12Xbrs engine. Two built.
Nieuport-Delage NiD 123 : Fighter for Peru with convertible wheel/float undercarriage, powered by 720 hp (537 kW) Lorraine-Detrich 12Hdrs engine. One prototype plus six production aircraft.
Nieuport-Delage NiD 125 : Improved fighter with 860 hp (642 kW) Hispano-Suiza 12Ycrs engine and revised cooling system. Reached 400 km/h (248 mph) during testing. One built.

https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmXoypizjW3WknFiJnKLwHCnL72vedxjQkDDP1mXWo6uco/wiki/Lorraine_12H_P%C3%A9trel.html
"The Lorraine 12H Pétrel was a French V-12 supercharged, geared piston aeroengine initially rated at 370 kW (500 hp), but later developed to give 640 kW (860 hp). It powered a variety of mostly French aircraft in the mid-1930s, several on an experimental basis."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispano-Suiza_12X
"The Hispano-Suiza 12X was an aircraft piston engine designed in France by Hispano-Suiza during the early 1930s. A 12-cylinder Vee, liquid-cooled design, the 12X was used on several aircraft types, some of them being used in limited numbers during World War II. Due to the 12X's limited power output, its derivative the more powerful Hispano-Suiza 12Y had a longer career."

 

[FFX]

I would like to ask where I can find the details of "C1 design"

 

[FFX]

In other words, is C1 just a code name for a tender or does it refer to a series of technical specifications that are included?

 

[Deltafan]

In other words, is C1 just a code name for a tender or does it refer to a series of technical specifications that are included?

"C1" means "chasseur monoplace" = "single-seater fighter"

All French tenders for C1 (during the interwar period) were tenders for single-seater fighters.

For other Tenders the letter were too for the mission (For example : C=chasseur=fighter, B=bombardier=bomber) and the number for the crew members. N=nuit=night was used for night missions. For example : BN5 = Night Bomber with 5 crew members.

 

[hesham]

Hi FFX,

as my dear Deltafan explained to you,and for the competitors,you can see;

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/french-aircraft-specifications-1919-1939.22273/

 

[FFX]

In other words, is C1 just a code name for a tender or does it refer to a series of technical specifications that are included?

"C1" means "chasseur monoplace" = "single-seater fighter"

All French tenders for C1 (during the interwar period) were tenders for single-seater fighters.

For other Tenders the letter were too for the mission (For example : C=chasseur=fighter, B=bombardier=bomber) and the number for the crew members. N=nuit=night was used for night missions. For example : BN5 = Night Bomber with 5 crew members.

Thank you for your reply.

 

[FFX]

Hi FFX,

as my dear Deltafan explained to you,and for the competitors,you can see;

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/french-aircraft-specifications-1919-1939.22273/

Much obliged !