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France and Germany to develop new european fighter jet

Hood

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Interestingly it looks rather different that the Dassault concepts we've seen previously and looks like another traditional F-22 clone, but I agree, it has more flair with better proportions than the Tempest model.
 

Grey Havoc

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Looks like a UAV or possibly (though unlikely given that the Cluster Bomb treaty is still nominally in effect for the moment) a free flying weapons dispenser.
 

TomS

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Possibly related to this article:


Influenced by French requirements, the company’s Smart Glider product is being offered for future integration with the nation’s Dassault Mirage 2000 and/or Rafale combat aircraft, and a successor Franco-German Future Combat Air System (FCAS). A powered version of the wingkit-equipped weapon, named the Smart Cruiser, is also being proposed.
Edit: never mind. Smart Glider/Smart Cruiser seem to be more liek SDB equivalents.

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/defense/2019-06-16/mbda-unveils-scaf-weapons-vision

 
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FighterJock

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An interesting looking design judging from the photo's posted above, how does this fighter compare size wise with Rafael bigger? :confused:
 

GARGEAN

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I wonder how much of it will hold to flying airframe if one ever appears.
 

sferrin

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galgot

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Disappointed... liked the previously released Dassault concept without fins better. This one looks more like a Pancake... Anyway, it will sure change again.

An interesting looking design judging from the photo's posted above, how does this fighter compare size wise with Rafael bigger? :confused:
Was waiting for this kind of comment to post this important new :


:D Wait until Dassault find a real name for this new one... Something like "Bourrasque", hehehe
 

Deltafan

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TomS

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Airbus unmanned aircraft system called "Remote Carrier"
Edit: I need to brush up on reading skills.

From Defense-Update:

A new category of weapon is ‘Remote Carriers’, a family of expendable air-launched autonomous platforms that deliver multiple effects, whether lethal or non-lethal, as well as new services for munitions such as intelligence, targeting, and deception of enemy sensors. Three categories are considered, of weight classes of 120 and 240 kg developed by MBDA, and a heavier one developed by Airbus. Such remote carriers would function as baits and decoys, carry additional weapons ahead of the manned aircraft and closer to heavily defended targets, collect ISR or establish communications nodes.
 

galgot

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Was waiting for this kind of comment to post this important new :
This article from 28/05/19 is a fake. It was only to joke.
! Yes Delta, i know, that is why I posted it :)

Someone on another site posted this link:
https://www.usinenouvelle.com/article/e ... en.N855435
mentioning length being 19m, span 14m, and weight under 40 tons fully loaded and armed.
Bigger than a Rafale.
 

Deltafan

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To admit - and I'm sure some won't like my opinion - but I'm more impressed than by the Tempest.

Images via FlugRevue
View attachment 615328
From a French point of vue*, your opinion is among the better Deino ;)

And thanks for the Under sight of the nose, it's the best that I saw since this Morning
:)


* OK, I must admit that a lot of French are disappointed on the French aero-websites.:confused:
 

pegasus

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Better photo :
Rafale is a very beautiful aircraft, but this thing definitively from my personal point of view is ugly, ugly inlets, ugly forebody too coarse, horribly ugly canopy, Rafale delicacy and beauty is gone, it might be stealthy, but what such an ugly beast, yucky
 

galgot

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! Yes Delta, i know, that is why I posted it :)
Ah, OK, sorry :oops:
No prob :)

Anyway, seem to me this mockup is very "stylized" , I mean , one could see much more details on the previous Dassault model.
Appart from the V-Tails, it looks very "generic stealth" and non-detailed. And i'm surprised how flat it is, specially from this angle :
615349
the canopy is not much higher than the fuselage back.
 

pegasus

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! Yes Delta, i know, that is why I posted it :)
Ah, OK, sorry :oops:
No prob :)

Anyway, seem to me this mockup is very "stylized" , I mean , one could see much more details on the previous Dassault model.
Appart from the V-Tails, it looks very "generic stealth" and non-detailed. And i'm surprised how flat it is, specially from this angle :
View attachment 615349
the canopy is not much higher than the fuselage back.
yes it is generic stealth, basically it is ultra basic, they reduced the whole airframe to the most basic flying elements and it will fly relying on thrust vectoring, and very high thrust to weight ratio, using electronic warfare and stealth as main defensive assets very good stealth, but very low reliance on aerodynamic control
 

Sundog

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Until a contract is cut and parts begin to be manufactured, I wouldn't put any money on any design idea you see at an airshow. It's just an indication of one of many configurations they've looked at; they're still formulating mission specifications at this point. Although, I do enjoy seeing the various concepts.
 
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Archibald

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Mixed opinion, too. Not very beautiful, but IMHO, most stealth aircraft since F-117 are ugly. Never been a great fan - except perhaps the YF-23, all the others, russians, Chinese, American, are ugly and all look the same. The chinese types are typical of that. Give me a Su-47 or Su-35 any day.

Then again, only a casual glance show this is a very "crude" mockup for display purpose. Just look at the canopy. I'm confident much more realistic mockups will folow within the next twenty years.
 
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red admiral

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Hmm same fuselage, wing, empennage configuration as BAES' mockup. But a different ugly forward fuselage. Might as well just call it Le Tempest :)

https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-releases/en/2019/06/industrial-agreement-offers-delivered-to-france-and-germany-dassault-aviation-and-airbus-achieve-next-decisive-milestone-for-future-combat-air-system-programme.html

There doesn't seem much in the way of actual news coming out. Current 30m EUR study contract signed back in Feb, maybe another 2 year contract at the end of the year.

Has anyone seen any information on these different "remote carriers"?
 

galgot

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Hmm same fuselage, wing, empennage configuration as BAES' mockup. But a different ugly forward fuselage. Might as well just call it Le Tempest :)

https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-releases/en/2019/06/industrial-agreement-offers-delivered-to-france-and-germany-dassault-aviation-and-airbus-achieve-next-decisive-milestone-for-future-combat-air-system-programme.html

There doesn't seem much in the way of actual news coming out. Current 30m EUR study contract signed back in Feb, maybe another 2 year contract at the end of the year.

Has anyone seen any information on these different "remote carriers"?
err... sorry i see twin fins on the Tempestuous Pelican-Head mockup, no V-Tails...
If you feel the urge to say Dassault copied something, its more the YF-23.
 
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Trident

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Relax, it was a tongue in cheek comment.

That said, I did like the earlier Dassault concept better as well, although the tail configuration on this one is fine by me. It's primarily the canopy which is so weird, very low profile yet long nose (visibility for carrier ops?)... I can't make up my mind whether it's possibly deliberate (supersonic drag reduction enabled by relying on an EODAS-like situational-awareness FLIR?) or merely an indication that the design is far from properly elaborated so far.
 

galgot

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Relax, it was a tongue in cheek comment.

That said, I did like the earlier Dassault concept better as well, although the tail configuration on this one is fine by me. It's primarily the canopy which is so weird, very low profile yet long nose (visibility for carrier ops?)... I can't make up my mind whether it's possibly deliberate (supersonic drag reduction enabled by relying on an EODAS-like situational-awareness FLIR?) or merely an indication that the design is far from properly elaborated so far.
I'm relaxed thank you.
Just a tongue in cheek response, cause, no, it's not the same config as the BAe mockup.
And as much as i certainly like it more than the BAe thing, this one looks too big, and not "finished".
That is why I'm so disappointed , their earlier concept was so nice...
 

red admiral

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Just a tongue in cheek response, cause, no, it's not the same config as the BAe mockup.
It's pretty similar but that doesn't mean copied e.g. Typhoon and Rafale

Fuselage layout is the same: bays, engines, intake positions. Wing planform is the same but smaller. Tail geometry is similar, but bigger and more canted.

And then the pointy nose for Dassault's standard tiny radar?

But then there's pictures and videos of other configurations with canards, fins, finless, different wings. Where's the engineering detail behind any of these?
 

galgot

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It's pretty similar but that doesn't mean copied e.g. Typhoon and Rafale
Mmmhh, this is where I don't agree, Typhoon and rafale are two delta-canards, true, but i don't see Tempest using these fins as elevators/tailplanes, they are just fins, where on this last Dassault mockup (as on the YF-23), its clearly V-Tail working both as fin and elevators (and maybe for roll too). So clearly a different aerodynamic config here. As for what is best, no idea.

Fuselage layout is the same: bays, engines, intake positions. Wing planform is the same but smaller. Tail geometry is similar, but bigger and more canted.
Yeah well, alas stealth makes them all look the same. Look TFX/J_31/KFX and all...
Its like all new cars nowadays, all look the same :/
the Holy Qaher-313 is a bit different tho...

And then the pointy nose for Dassault's standard tiny radar?
Ahh...Does size really matter ... but seriously, again I liked the earlier concept nose cause it was clearly designed for carrier landing, as the Rafale.

But then there's pictures and videos of other configurations with canards, fins, finless, different wings. Where's the engineering detail behind any of these?
I think they are as "generic" as this last Mockup. And i suppose it depends also from where they come, Airbus or dassault.
 
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Deltafan

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Air intakes (from Poland) :

 

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totoro

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Can someone draw a top view of the mockup? I can't tell from the images what sort of shape do the wings have...
 

RavenOne

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I am at Le Bourget so here’s my photos once the covers came off yesterday ...

Cheers

E41BB1F8-3AF6-4197-A945-11E7DCF42FD5.jpegCEE6A8BD-881F-4633-B185-49D80413CD1A.jpeg750629D8-D906-4F79-A34D-C3ADD2328D32.jpeg0BD12B93-B5B6-4B07-A683-69935D054B6A.jpeg
 

GARGEAN

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Mixed opinion, too. Not very beautiful, but IMHO, most stealth aircraft since F-117 are ugly. Never been a great fan - except perhaps the YF-23, all the others, russians, Chinese, American, are ugly and all look the same. The chinese types are typical of that. Give me a Su-47 or Su-35 any day.
Hey, you ever looked at T-50 closely?
 
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