Secret Projects of the Kriegsmarine - Unseen Designs of Nazi Germany's Navy

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Anyone know anything about this forthcoming title?

Secret Projects of the Kriegsmarine
Unseen Designs of Nazi Germany's Navy​

By Nico Sgarlato and Allessio Sgarlato

Andrew
 
I've received my copy. Smaller than expected. Some good diagrams, but a lot of the better ones are split across two pages, with chunks necessarily buried in the middle; a lot of meh-resolution smaller diagrams. I haven't read it yet, just flipped through it, but... shrug.
 
I received a small drivers manual for the Porsche 356C this week, the larger diagrams are on fold out pages. Quite simple to do and I always wonder why not when decent images are let down like that. Split across a book fold? Shirley we have got past that being necessary by now.....
 
Foo Fighter said:
I always wonder why not when decent images are let down like that.
Click to expand...

Also: I've compared it to my copies of Rossler's "The U-boat" and Fock's "Fast Fighting Boats" and a lot of the diagrams are simple copies of the ones in those books. And the simple diagrams of projected capital ships... well, a lot of them seem to be internet diagrams (shipbucket?). Hmmm.

20220223_143014.jpg

There is some new stuff (new to me at any rate), but on the whole, not sure I can recommend it at it's full price of more than sixty bucks. Compare the size of the book with "U-Boat" and the New Industry Standard In Quality Publications. It's a lot smaller for a fair amount more, which i don;t really understand.
20220223_134339.jpg 20220223_134348.jpg 20220223_134409.jpg
 
Shoulda done a Google Image Search... that Panzerschiffe P diagram looks a *lot* like a mirrored version of this one, from a World of Warships forum...

6LY6p6k.png
 
Ashley used to be active on shipbucket.com, mosty drawing alternate universe Kriegsmarine ships...... which makes all this even worse.
Are there many images in that book in the same (shipbucket) artstyle?
 
acelanceloet said:
Ashley used to be active on shipbucket.com, mosty drawing alternate universe Kriegsmarine ships...... which makes all this even worse.
Are there many images in that book in the same (shipbucket) artstyle?
Click to expand...
Basically the whole "battleship" chapter seems to use that style, though smaller/lower rez. Diagrams include:
H-40A, H-40B. H-41, H-42, H-43, Schlachtkreuzer O, Panzerschiffe P. There are several aircraft carriers illustrated, also low rez, but with a different style including top and side views.
 
If an author can't find decent plans of German warship projects or commission decent line drawings and has to resort to decade-old Shipbucket drawings (which are not designed for printing as the resolution is crap) then they should give it up as a bad job.

And by removing the artist's credits they have also broken Shipbucket's copyright rules as well, which I will be bringing to the attention of Shipbucket's management.
 
yes this is violation of the creative common license of Shipbucket artwork. its not intended as illustration to be used in publications but a open hobby to all artist to "mess" around with in their own non-profit intentions and respecting the credits. We will discuss in Shipbucket how to procede from this. Thank you for bringing this to our attention
 
Forum rules argue against posting decent-rez scans/photos from books, but perhaps in this case it might be valid for the purposes of comparing them against online images? Because if a book simply uses a diagram that they scraped off the internet, then the book doesn't really have anything copyrightable there, correct?

If that's agreeable, I'll post the other apparently "shipbucket" images.
 
OK. There are a number of side views that to my eye look very much "shipbuckety." For starters, the H-40A and H-40B.


The book illustration looks like this online image and this online image which seem to date to 2003:

h40a.gif

h40b.gif


If the diagrams fromthe book look kinda cruddy, in that case it's the fault of neither the camera nor the photographer: the images are small and blurry.

20220224_130310.jpg
 
There are a series of diagrams of aircraft carriers, done in a different style (not shipbucket, to my knowledge). They still seem to have been taken from internet images, or at least images found on the internet, with some modifications. I don't know if these diagrams originated with some "original" source, or if they were professional reconstructions, fan art or what. Here is one, the "Europa" aircraft carrier conversion taken from a World of Warships forum... the only source I seem to be able to find them online. I can't say as definitively that these images were simply copied from the World of Warships-posted images, since there are some differences, but the forum-images and the book-images sure seem to have common ancestry. Perhaps they both came from one of the books referenced in the bibliography.

post-3851765-0-99553600-1375560830.jpg


There was some editing of the side view. Note the "jaggies" visible in angled lines, indicating a low-rez original.

20220224_130420.jpg
 
On further reflection, my disappointment grows. I was sold on buying the book mostly on the cover art, which is nice... but the interior... ehhhhhhhhhhh.

One design that was new to me and which has a *fair* diagram is the Schertel-Sachsenberg VS-5 submersible hydrofoil shown both in the cover art and in diagram form in my first post. But after coming across the shipbuckets, I now begin to doubt this design as well. Does anyone know of prior references to it?
 
From the photos, I have to say its content is somewhat disappointing……
And I also would like to say , unlike the area of Heer/Waffen-XX and Luftwaffe research, where German docs are extensively used, in the area of Kriegsmarine history, many authors today seem to have lost the ablitiy to digging the “gold mine” of the German military archives. Instead, they simply rely on books published decades ago.
This is especially evident after the retirement of older-generation authors (eg Siegfried Breyer, Eberhard Rössler).
 
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Oddly, the other design shown on the cover of the book is *also* the VS-5, but instead the Schertel-Sachsenberg VS-5 submersible hydrofoil. a full-on submarine with foils. Unbuilt.

The cover art is hands-down the best part of the book.
 
Orionblamblam said:
....
Does anyone know of prior references to it?
Click to expand...
There is a book in german "Tragflügelboote des Schertel-Sachsenberg-Systems: Eine deutsche Entwicklung" from 2007, authors: Hinsch, Werner, Sachsenberg, Klaus J.
It is difficult to obtain or at very high prices.
 
Harry64 said:
Orionblamblam said:
....
Does anyone know of prior references to it?
Click to expand...
There is a book in german "Tragflügelboote des Schertel-Sachsenberg-Systems: Eine deutsche Entwicklung" from 2007, authors: Hinsch, Werner, Sachsenberg, Klaus J.
It is difficult to obtain or at very high prices.
Click to expand...
Thank! Neither abebooks nor ebay seem to have one... but they exist in libraries. Off to the interlibrary loan system!
 
Harry64 said:
Orionblamblam said:
....
Does anyone know of prior references to it?
Click to expand...
There is a book in german "Tragflügelboote des Schertel-Sachsenberg-Systems: Eine deutsche Entwicklung" from 2007, authors: Hinsch, Werner, Sachsenberg, Klaus J.
It is difficult to obtain or at very high prices.
Click to expand...
As with all such things, no doubt someone here walked past it at a jumble sale or in a second-hand bookstore many years ago when it could be had for a few dollars' equivalent, and passed it over as uninteresting. But now, trying to own it will violate your wallet till it begs for mercy.

This is the way.
 
I am a happy owner of that book, bought many years ago at a good price, here the cover and the index.

Tragflugel 1sm.jpg
 

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It has some good diagrams, but maybe not so much as you desire... the best parts of the book are the detailed description of the projects an the huge amount pf pictures of the prototypes. Some examples of diagrams:
 

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Temistocle said:
It has some good diagrams, but maybe not so much as you desire... the best parts of the book are the detailed description of the projects an the huge amount pf pictures of the prototypes. Some examples of diagrams:
Click to expand...
I know it by "Erminio Bagnasco - Le Motosiluranti della Seconda Guerra Mondiale - Albertelli Editore 1977"
 
Remember, there is an Osprey "New Vanguard" book on the way about German (and Italian) Aircraft Carriers of WW II.
 
airman said:
Temistocle said:
It has some good diagrams, but maybe not so much as you desire... the best parts of the book are the detailed description of the projects an the huge amount pf pictures of the prototypes. Some examples of diagrams:
Click to expand...
I know it by "Erminio Bagnasco - Le Motosiluranti della Seconda Guerra Mondiale - Albertelli Editore 1977
Click to expand...
I have it, too... ;)
 

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