Fieseler Fi 166

Michel Van

ACCESS: Above Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
5,374
Reaction score
2,461
the Story of Fieseler Fi 166 is strange
In 1941 Werner von Braun proposed Rocket powered interceptor at Reichs Luftfahrt Ministerium (RLM)
they refused the concept, but Erich Bachem notice the proposal
he work for Gerhard-Fieseler-Werke as Technical manager and proposed later at RLM the "Fi 166 Höhenjäger I"

its Me BF109 (without engine & propeller) with attached underneath a A-5 rocket!
who launches it vertical up to 12000 meter (39,370 ft) were BF109 glide to enemy Bomber
but to unavailability of BF109, Bachem overwork the study
the BF109 is replace by a Me 262 like aircraft wit two Jumbo004 engine, designed by Bachem and to build by Fieseler.
but RLM consider this as impractical.

so Erich Bachem overwork the design to "Fi 166 Höhenjäger II"
this time it a two seat rocketplane with restart Engine
again RLM consider this as impractical.

in 1944 RLM demand manned interceptors for home defense
Erich Bachem proposed the Ba 349-NATTER

some open question about the Fi 166 Höhenjäger:
About the "unavailability" of BF109
BF109 on A5 rocket ? i think the launch rip the BF109 into piece !
was that the truth why Me Bf109 was not use?

was Fi 166 with Jetengine (Me 262 analog) special design for rocket interceptor
or was a other design used for study?
 

Michel Van

ACCESS: Above Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
5,374
Reaction score
2,461
on unavailability of BF109 at Gerhard-Fieseler-Werke

they build 70 BF109-T for the aircraftcarrier "Graf Zeppelin"
after this project never came in action
the BF-109-T were used in coastline defence
 

saturncanuck

Any landing you can walk away from, is a good one.
Joined
Jan 14, 2009
Messages
299
Reaction score
10
Website
www.aerofile.ca
Michel Van said:
on unavailability of BF109 at Gerhard-Fieseler-Werke

they build 70 BF109-T for the aircraftcarrier "Graf Zeppelin"
after this project never came in action
the BF-109-T were used in coastline defence

Don't forget about the development from this, what became the Bv 155.
 

Jemiba

Moderator
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2006
Messages
8,348
Reaction score
1,545
SaturnCanuck said:
Don't forget about the development from this, what became the Bv 155.

AFAIK, the Bf 109T were re-modified into Bf 109E again, as there never was a need for those
carrier fighter. The Bv 155 stemmed from the Bf 109H series, in itself a development of the
F and G.
 

Michel Van

ACCESS: Above Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
5,374
Reaction score
2,461
Jemiba said:
AFAIK, the Bf 109T re-modified into Bf 109E again, as there never was a need for those
carrier fighter. The Bv 155 stemmed from the Bf 109H series, in itself a development of the F and G.

that explane the unavailability of Me BF109
this insane Proposal need a reinforced construction like BF109-T, but still is gonna rips in to piece during launch.

for Fi 166 as "Me 262 like aircraft" with two Jumbo004 engine, RLM say no to it because competition & competence hassles to Me 262 program ?
 

RdsG46

ACCESS: Restricted
Joined
May 28, 2011
Messages
15
Reaction score
0
Website
projekt46.wordpress.com
I've made a hypothetical drawing about the original bf 109+emw rocket proposal. I hope you like it:


prefi166me109-mode2-copy1.jpg



Gabriel
 

Tophe

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
Feb 18, 2006
Messages
1,149
Reaction score
52
Website
cmeunier.chez-alice.fr
Interesting and pleasant, thanks!
(while personal hypothetical drawings may be better in another section of this forum, I don't know)
 

AndyG61

ACCESS: Restricted
Joined
Jun 29, 2011
Messages
3
Reaction score
1
Jemiba said:
AFAIK, the Bf 109T were re-modified into Bf 109E again .....

The carrier version was/would have been the 109T-1; after the project was cancelled the bulk of the 70 aircraft on order were completed as 109T-2, with all carrier related equipment (capapult fittings, hooks etc) removed. Due to their extended wings they had much better short field performance, so were allocated to I/JG.77 in Norway where they could be utilised most effectively.
 

RdsG46

ACCESS: Restricted
Joined
May 28, 2011
Messages
15
Reaction score
0
Website
projekt46.wordpress.com
Justo Miranda said:
My opinion...


Isn't first drawing the first version of Fi 166? I mean, I thought the second version was a von Braun interceptor like rocket plane.


I made my drawing based on this discription: http://discaircraft.greyfalcon.us/Fi.htm
It's an interesting fact that BF 109's wing sweep and the belly line of the tail section is the same as the Fi 166s (plane+rocket version).

Thank you for the drawings!
 

Cy-27

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2008
Messages
602
Reaction score
316
The magazine Luftfahrt History Heft 13 has several drawings of the Höhenjägers I & II TL Type-R & R (Fieseler Fi.166 high altitude fighter) dating from 4 December 1941.
 

Cy-27

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2008
Messages
602
Reaction score
316
Drawings of Fi.166 variants from Luftfahrt History Heft 13 ....
 

Attachments

  • Fieseler_Fi-166_Höhenjägers_II_[2].png
    Fieseler_Fi-166_Höhenjägers_II_[2].png
    214.8 KB · Views: 485
  • Fieseler_Fi-166_Höhenjägers_II_[1].png
    Fieseler_Fi-166_Höhenjägers_II_[1].png
    175 KB · Views: 519
  • Fieseler_Fi-166_Höhenjägers_I_[2].png
    Fieseler_Fi-166_Höhenjägers_I_[2].png
    145.5 KB · Views: 535
  • Fieseler_Fi-166_Höhenjägers_I_[1].png
    Fieseler_Fi-166_Höhenjägers_I_[1].png
    156.7 KB · Views: 565

Jemiba

Moderator
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2006
Messages
8,348
Reaction score
1,545
From "Flugzeug Profile 31", a fancy 3-view with camo scheme and an
internal arrangement drawing:
(pretty sure, we know the artist ... ;) )
 

Attachments

  • Fi-166_01.jpg
    Fi-166_01.jpg
    64.9 KB · Views: 133
  • Fi-166_02.jpg
    Fi-166_02.jpg
    53.6 KB · Views: 128

Cy-27

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2008
Messages
602
Reaction score
316
A little more on the Fi 166 from Die deutsche Luftrustung 1933-1935 by Heinz Nowarra (Bernard & Graefe 1977)

Original text:

Fieseler Fi 166

Unter dieser Bezeichnung fand 1941 bei Fieseler eine Voruntersuchung für die Entwicklung eines Raketenjägers statt. Es wurden zwei Versionen entworfen und durchgerechnet. Höhenjager I, Typ R.R.F1, für eine Flugzeit von 5 minuten in 12000 m Höhe, und Höhenjager II, Typ TL-R-R-uR, für 45 minuten Flugzeit in 12000 m Höhe. Während Typ I reinen Raketenantrieb haben sollte, waren für Typ II zwei Strahlturbinen unter den Tragflächen und ein Raketentriebwerk vorgesehen. Das letztere bildete mit den Treibstoffbehältern eine gesonderte Triebwerkseinheit in einem zweiten Rumpf unter dem eigentlichen im hinteren Teil des oberen Rumpfes.

Fieseler Fi 166 Type I
Tragflächeninhalt: 36.5 m2
Startgewicht: 10000 kg
Fluggewicht: 5620 kg
Landegewicht: 4220 kg
Steigschub: 900 kg
Höchstgeschwindigkeit in 2000 m Höhe: 830 km/h

Fieseler Fi 166 Type II
Tragflächeninhalt: 43.0 m2
Startgewicht: 13500 kg
Fluggewicht: 5930 kg
Landegewicht: 4950 kg
Steigschub: 775 kg
Höchstgeschwindigkeit in 2000 m Höhe: 830 km/h


Translated text:

Fieseler Fi 166

This term covers a preliminary investigation for developing a missile hunter found 1941 Fieseler instead. There were two versions designed and calculated. Altitude-fighter I, Type RRF1, fly for a period of 5 minutes at 12 000 m height, and Altitude-fighter II, TL Type-RR-uR, for 45 minutes flight time at 12,000 m altitude. While type I should have pure rocket propulsion, two jet engines under the wings and a rocket engine were provided for type II. The latter is formed with the fuel tanks, a separate power unit in a second body in the rear part below the actual top of the hull.

Fieseler Fi 166 Type I
Wing area: 36.5 m2
Start weight: 10000 kg
Flying weight: 5620 kg
Landing weight: 4220 kg
Climb thrust: 900 kg
Top speed at 2000 m altitude: 830 km / h

Fieseler Fi 166 Type II
Wing area: 43.0 m2
Start weight: 13500 kg
Flying weight: 5930 kg
Landing weight: 4950 kg
Climb thrust: 775 kg
Top speed at 2000 m altitude: 830 km / h
 

Jemiba

Moderator
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2006
Messages
8,348
Reaction score
1,545
"Raketenjäger", literally as you wrote "missile hunter" is a bit misleading. A better term
here is rocket fighter (as rocket powered fighter)
 

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
28,455
Reaction score
6,108
Hi,

a good drawing to Fieseler Fi.166.
 

Attachments

  • 088-089.jpg
    088-089.jpg
    429.2 KB · Views: 89
  • - cover.jpg
    - cover.jpg
    375 KB · Views: 93

Vladimir

I really should change my personal text
Joined
Sep 22, 2015
Messages
321
Reaction score
20
RdsG46 said:
I've made a hypothetical drawing about the original bf 109+emw rocket proposal. I hope you like it:


prefi166me109-mode2-copy1.jpg



Gabriel

Yes, ilike it, Gabriel! Good work!
 

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
28,455
Reaction score
6,108
Old Info in my files,

the Fieseler Fi 166 had anther variant,Höhenjäger III,does anyone hear about it before ?.
 

Similar threads

Top