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Famous Russian Aircraft Mikoyan MiG-23 & MiG-27 Yefim Gordon

GTX

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Already pre-ordered. Been waiting for this one for some time.
 

FighterJock

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GTX said:
Already pre-ordered. Been waiting for this one for some time.
You are not alone in wanting this book, I have been waiting for it since the Famous Russian Aircraft series started back in 2005 with the MiG-31.
 

boxkite

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Postponed.

Mrs. Hirshman from Crécy said book on
MiG-23 is due out at the end of September.
 

hesham

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My dear Boxkite,

is there any new Projects we don't know them in it ? ,and thanks.
 

FighterJock

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About time, I can’t wait until I get my copy.
 

lancer21

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I too was expecting this eagerly... got my copy couple of days ago, haven't read it from start to finish as it's over 500 pages, just going through it. Lots of new pics which i much enjoyed, some additional information compared to the older MiG-23/27 book, some enjoyable anecdotes (like the guy who had lock-on on a SR-71 and was asking permission to fire) but... it could have been better. Was dissapointed by the poor photo coverage of syrian and north korean MiG-23s for instance, there are some good photos around of them now. As to the various variants of very early and very late MiG-23s, don't get me started, my head is still spinning trying to comprehend (can't say that the book is wrong or not as i don't know that), apparently those bulgarian and syrian, and perhaps libyan SPO-15 equipped birds are called MiG-23MLAE-2... I would probably give it four of five stars, it's still a most worthy addition to the new MiG-29 and Su-27 titles, which i would rate a tad better. I do look forward to the MiG-31 and Su-9/11/15 books, and hope for new updated edditions of MiG-21, MiG-25 and others.
 

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The Exsmo MiG-23 and MiG-27 books by Victor Markovsky and Igor Prikhodchenko are by far the best account to date, in Russian unfortunately, but I've been reading via Google Translate. I'd be interested to see if Yefim has repeated the mistakes of his earlier books.
 

Deino

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The Exsmo MiG-23 and MiG-27 books by Victor Markovsky and Igor Prikhodchenko are by far the best account to date, in Russian unfortunately, but I've been reading via Google Translate. I'd be interested to see if Yefim has repeated the mistakes of his earlier books.

From what I read at the FB-group "The Aviation Enthusiast Book Club" he did indeed ... :confused:
 

lancer21

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Overscan, can you tell more about how/where can you read the Eksmo book with Google Translate?

Deino, any more details of the things that may be wrong in the Crecy book?

Thank you.
 

overscan

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If you buy the Eksmo book as a PDF you can extract the text to Word, then submit that Word doc to Google Translate for translation. Its a little more involved than that - you need to do some search-and-replace to get rid of end-of-line hyphenation for example - but the end result is a near perfectly readable copy of the book.
 

overscan

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A rather nice quote from the Eksmo book:

After the MiG-23 was adopted, several of its creators were presented for state awards. In addition to the 'Mikoyanovites' themselves, among them were TsAGI Deputy Head G.S. Bushgens as the creator of the aerodynamic layout of the aircraft, K.R. Khachaturov as the engine designer, and A.L. Lyapin as the chief designer of the K-23 missiles. On this occasion, a joke was immediately born in the aviation industry that Bushgens was given the Golden Star for an unusable and thrice remade wing, Khachaturov for the engine that had not enough thrust, and Lyapin for the rocket that his deputy had to make.
(For context - the VG wing design indeed required much revision to be usable, the engine developments constantly failed to achieve their thrust targets, and Lyapin has been the person pushing to copy the AIM-7E as K-25, with the K-23 design entirely left to his deputy).
 
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overscan

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Another:

At the State Scientific Research Institute of Aviation Systems (GosNIIAS, the former Scientific Research Institute-2 of the Minaviaprom, created immediately after the war as the central aviation weapons center) was equipped with a novelty of that time - semi-natural modeling stands, with the help of which the aircraft radar and missile heads were worked out. It turned out that the characteristics of the created Sapfir-23 radar are far from desired. As the director of GosNIIAS E. A. Fedosov * said, “we found that the external coherence of the radar does not work - it does not provide a stable vision of the target on the background of the earth, and there was only a small working sector where it was necessary to drive the enemy, and in the entire viewing sector he was not found." Repeated shifts in the established terms of work did not lead to positive results, and delays became chronic. When it became apparent that the ready-made production MiG-23s were left without a radar station, “organizational conclusions” followed: it was about strengthening the country's defense capabilities, and the consequences of the job disruption were quite serious - in 1967, the director of NII-339 GM Kunyavsky was removed from work for the miscalculations made. Komisarova, his successor Y. Pavlov also lost his post. Depite all the previous merits, GM Kunyavsky turned out to be “extreme" : the chief designer was reminded of all sins, including his origin and the “fifth column”. The separation was cruel: the designer who did not justify the trust was deprived of his post, after which he was dismissed from the institute and threatened with withdrawal of access to any work of a military nature - more than a severe punishment, which essentially left a person unemployed. In the end, he was hired by GosNIIAS, whose leadership knew how an experienced “radio operator”, reasoning that since “thanks to” their organization, the Coryphaeus (translator's note: Head figure of the chorus, leader) of domestic radar was dismissed, he would be useful. In the future, G. M. Kunyavsky, already as an employee of GosNIIAS, distinguished himself when working on the latest MiG-29 and Su-27 fighters and was awarded state awards. V.K. Grishin was appointed as the new chief designer for Sapfir-23, who was transferred “for reinforcement” from the Instrument Engineering Research Institute (NIIP) to NII-339 , who had to bring the station to mind. NII-339, renamed the Radio Engineering Research Institute (NIIR), later merged with the NIIIP, forming the Phazotron NGO under the leadership of the former head of the NIIP Yu. N. Figurovsky.
 

lancer21

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Thanks Overscan, unfortunately that seems to be beyond me at the moment, even if nothing would please me more than being able to support good russian aviation writers by buying their books. Also thanks for the translations, all very interesting and makes you wonder what other fascinating details are in the russian books.
 

pegasus

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Thanks Overscan, unfortunately that seems to be beyond me at the moment, even if nothing would please me more than being able to support good russian aviation writers by buying their books. Also thanks for the translations, all very interesting and makes you wonder what other fascinating details are in the russian books.
I am a big fan of MiG-23, these days, virtually russian websites have more or less the basic information about it, the MiG-23 russian websites are relatively easy to read in google translator, nowadays it does a pretty good job, some websites can give you even the MiG-23 technical manuals, the technical manual is hard to translate because it is based on pictures, thus you can not copy and paste as a regular HTML text, to do it you either have to rewrite the whole text, i did that, or to go to some websites where they discuss it. Today the MiG-23 is an old aircraft, very well studied in the west and east, so to be honest you have pretty good information available,
I have bought several book about it, from Polish ones which i only bought it for the pictures, Russian ones that i can read a bit, and from English editions to Japanese books, the Japanese book even says the MiG-23 managed to fight well in some operations because they tried to mix western and Russian accounts.


The main controversy of the MiG-23 information either in websites or books is mostly its combat record, to be honest many Russian sources contradict Israeli or western combat records, very few say the MiG-23 had troubles in combat.

Once I talked to a Russian ex-MiG-23 pilot in Airforce.ru Forum, he was very nice but he did not say more than Hello I was a MiG-23 pilot first because my Russian spoken skills are bad and second he only said that, and in that forum, they have pretty good historical records of MiG-23 about the Afghan operations by the VVS, there are good accounts in several websites, the problem is if you do not speak Russian well to be honest is hard look in forums, because the information some times is here and there but you have to look for it in many, many pages.


The combat record is so controversial that some websites even post blatant lies, once i was caught and cheated by one, they had supposedly pictures of MiG-23s attacking A-4s, i posted the pictures in that forum but several Russians told me the website is fake, you have been fooled.

Well it was an embarrassment for me true, but i learn many Russians also search for the truth, like any human.

Since I can read Spanish well, i researched the Cuban MiG-23 experience, well in Angola it was more or less a kind of small success for the MiG-23 in combat record.

I looked for Arab sources, this lead me to a video in Arabic where they have have video evidence of a MiG-25 being shot down and a very nice video by an American program about the F-15 where they show wreckage of MiG-23 wings in 1982, there are few pictures of MiG-23 shot down in 1982.




I have Yefim Gordon`s book my self, I mean the book is good, it is basically a gathering of information of many other books and websites, it has the Russian version of the MiG-23 combat record, where they say most of the victims in 1982 were the MiG-23BN version, basically the early MiG-27, the account says the MiG-23MF managed to down F-16s along side a few F-4s and A-4s in the late 1970s early 1982, while later in 1985 the MiG-23ML was even able to down F-15s.


The combat record is controversial because while you read the combat manual of MiG-23 in Bulgarian version, it says F-4 was more or less an equal to the MiG-23 in the 1980s, the MiG-23 in the 1980s had only longer range missiles to F-16A but it was mostly outclassed by the F-15.

Other aircraft like A-4s or Mirage F1 were relatively easy prays and very likely real victims of even the MiG-23MS.


So when you read the account in his book, well If you are open well you can believe with some luck it did down at least a few F-16s, but the account says there were only 6 MiG-23MF downed in 1982 and 4 or 5 MiG-23MS.

So to be honest is very controversial its combat record, there are claims MiG-23MLs downed even 1 or 2 F-14s in the Iranian-Iraq war.


My personal conclusion is the MiG-23 was a very good aircraft as good as the F-4E, it could handle aircraft like F-4E, A-4s or Kfirs well, the Panavia Tornado was more or less an easy pray, the Tomcat I do not know, F-16 in the 1980s, was only inferior in beyond VR combat, in close combat only at very high speeds, the MiG-23 could fight the F-16, the Fighting Falcon F-16 was better than MiG-23 at subsonic speeds and low to medium altitudes , well the MiG-23 was not so good versus F-16A but it is a little bit believable it downed F-16s. Against the F-15 only at high speeds the MiG-23 could fighted it, at low speeds was not really a match to the Eagle.

Mirage F1 was not as good as MiG-23.

Now if you buy the book for pictures it depends what version you like personally I like the MiG-23ML version flown to finland in 1978 or the one that went to France the same year.

The Russian gray MiG-23MF well i loved it, but the book is not full of those ones, so if I buy it it is only for the extra information it might have that is rarely not available in websites or might be but I am lazy to research and translate.

I do not know about this new book, it looks it has more pages so I guess it might have more information perhaps I will buy it if I have chance.

this video is excellent i highly recommend it to you
Saludos
 
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pegasus

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Thanks Overscan, unfortunately that seems to be beyond me at the moment, even if nothing would please me more than being able to support good russian aviation writers by buying their books. Also thanks for the translations, all very interesting and makes you wonder what other fascinating details are in the russian books.
a good video to watch if you are into MiG-23 combat record


MiG-23 wreckage from Syria

Typical Russian account https://topwar.ru/117442-ukus-medvedki.html


1573196040302.png


The losses of the Syrian Air Force for June 6-11, 1982 were: 6 MiG-23MF, 4 MiG-23MS, 14 MiG-23BN, 11 MiG-21MF, 26 MiG-21bis, 7 Su-22m2 and 4 SA.342. Killed 27 pilots, and another 18 were injured, one was captured. Two MiG-23MF were lost in the following days.
1573197084642.png

http://www.skywar.ru/Lebanon.html Yefim in his first book was not as good in the combat record as these two websites in terms of pictures
 
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lancer21

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Wonder if Msrs Gordon and Komissarov are active on online aviation forums or have a website of their own? It would sure be some very interesting discussions that could be had with the gents.

To Pegasus, thanks for your insight, i have to say though that i'm not the one to take what the americans or israelis claim as gospel, on the contrary. While of course i don't believe the much inflated claims from some pro-syrian/pro-russian sources regarding Bekaa, i also don't buy it for one moment that the israelis had it all their was (f.e. Norton in his IAF book while presenting the israeli version of what happened- no losses whatsoever-, iirc he also mention about at least damaged F-15s and couple of lost F-16s as well) although i guess this is a subject for another topic.

One final note on this though is to add about the finding of a very interesting article about a mock dogfight between libyan MiG-23MLDs and USN F-14s in 1986, which is yet another confirmation imo of MiG-23ML/MLD's very good overall performance for it's day at least, even if allowing for too much "excitement" so to say from the libyan pilot in telling his side of the story.

 

Flyaway

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Thanks Overscan, unfortunately that seems to be beyond me at the moment, even if nothing would please me more than being able to support good russian aviation writers by buying their books. Also thanks for the translations, all very interesting and makes you wonder what other fascinating details are in the russian books.
I am a big fan of MiG-23, these days, virtually russian websites have more or less the basic information about it, the MiG-23 russian websites are relatively easy to read in google translator, nowadays it does a pretty good job, some websites can give you even the MiG-23 technical manuals, the technical manual is hard to translate because it is based on pictures, thus you can not copy and paste as a regular HTML text, to do it you either have to rewrite the whole text, i did that, or to go to some websites where they discuss it. Today the MiG-23 is an old aircraft, very well studied in the west and east, so to be honest you have pretty good information available,
I have bought several book about it, from Polish ones which i only bought it for the pictures, Russian ones that i can read a bit, and from English editions to Japanese books, the Japanese book even says the MiG-23 managed to fight well in some operations because they tried to mix western and Russian accounts.


The main controversy of the MiG-23 information either in websites or books is mostly its combat record, to be honest many Russian sources contradict Israeli or western combat records, very few say the MiG-23 had troubles in combat.

Once I talked to a Russian ex-MiG-23 pilot in Airforce.ru Forum, he was very nice but he did not say more than Hello I was a MiG-23 pilot first because my Russian spoken skills are bad and second he only said that, and in that forum, they have pretty good historical records of MiG-23 about the Afghan operations by the VVS, there are good accounts in several websites, the problem is if you do not speak Russian well to be honest is hard look in forums, because the information some times is here and there but you have to look for it in many, many pages.


The combat record is so controversial that some websites even post blatant lies, once i was caught and cheated by one, they had supposedly pictures of MiG-23s attacking A-4s, i posted the pictures in that forum but several Russians told me the website is fake, you have been fooled.

Well it was an embarrassment for me true, but i learn many Russians also search for the truth, like any human.

Since I can read Spanish well, i researched the Cuban MiG-23 experience, well in Angola it was more or less a kind of small success for the MiG-23 in combat record.

I looked for Arab sources, this lead me to a video in Arabic where they have have video evidence of a MiG-25 being shot down and a very nice video by an American program about the F-15 where they show wreckage of MiG-23 wings in 1982, there are few pictures of MiG-23 shot down in 1982.




I have Yefim Gordon`s book my self, I mean the book is good, it is basically a gathering of information of many other books and websites, it has the Russian version of the MiG-23 combat record, where they say most of the victims in 1982 were the MiG-23BN version, basically the early MiG-27, the account says the MiG-23MF managed to down F-16s along side a few F-4s and A-4s in the late 1970s early 1982, while later in 1985 the MiG-23ML was even able to down F-15s.


The combat record is controversial because while you read the combat manual of MiG-23 in Bulgarian version, it says F-4 was more or less an equal to the MiG-23 in the 1980s, the MiG-23 in the 1980s had only longer range missiles to F-16A but it was mostly outclassed by the F-15.

Other aircraft like A-4s or Mirage F1 were relatively easy prays and very likely real victims of even the MiG-23MS.


So when you read the account in his book, well If you are open well you can believe with some luck it did down at least a few F-16s, but the account says there were only 6 MiG-23MF downed in 1982 and 4 or 5 MiG-23MS.

So to be honest is very controversial its combat record, there are claims MiG-23MLs downed even 1 or 2 F-14s in the Iranian-Iraq war.


My personal conclusion is the MiG-23 was a very good aircraft as good as the F-4E, it could handle aircraft like F-4E, A-4s or Kfirs well, the Panavia Tornado was more or less an easy pray, the Tomcat I do not know, F-16 in the 1980s, was only inferior in beyond VR combat, in close combat only at very high speeds, the MiG-23 could fight the F-16, the Fighting Falcon F-16 was better than MiG-23 at subsonic speeds and low to medium altitudes , well the MiG-23 was not so good versus F-16A but it is a little bit believable it downed F-16s. Against the F-15 only at high speeds the MiG-23 could fighted it, at low speeds was not really a match to the Eagle.

Mirage F1 was not as good as MiG-23.

Now if you buy the book for pictures it depends what version you like personally I like the MiG-23ML version flown to finland in 1978 or the one that went to France the same year.

The Russian gray MiG-23MF well i loved it, but the book is not full of those ones, so if I buy it it is only for the extra information it might have that is rarely not available in websites or might be but I am lazy to research and translate.

I do not know about this new book, it looks it has more pages so I guess it might have more information perhaps I will buy it if I have chance.

this video is excellent i highly recommend it to you
Saludos
I find your comments about the Tornado to be highly unlikely. For a start which Tornado as there was several versions including an air superiority variant. Also it underwent numerous upgrades over its lifespan. So I am afraid when it comes to the Tornado I will have to disagree with you.
 

pegasus

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I find your comments about the Tornado to be highly unlikely. For a start which Tornado as there was several versions including an air superiority variant. Also it underwent numerous upgrades over its lifespan. So I am afraid when it comes to the Tornado I will have to disagree with you.
Do not worry I agree, I just meant are comparable aircraft, only that avionics wise the Tornado perhaps was better, plus the best MiG-23-98 variant i think perhaps was exported to Angola since they upgraded their MiG-23MLs, but I agree perhaps the Tornado ADV was a very difficult aircraft for MiG-23 at least in terms of BVR combat in the 1980s 1990s period, after that the MiG-23 was not upgraded any more it has been retired in most air forces it was used

saludos
 
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