F-117A prior to unveiling: artists impressions and kits of the 'F-19 Stealth Fighter' in mass culture

The Revell design appears to be an attempt to improve on the Testor F-19 concept with the removal of the inlet covers and the repositioning of the canards. The canards were also rounded and blended in to the chine similar to the Northrop Loral ad design. The laser target designator was also removed. It would have been interesting to see if the Revell design could have include a mesh inlet cover similar to the F-117A.
 

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Dynoman said:
The Revell design appears to be an attempt to improve on the Testor F-19 concept with the removal of the inlet covers and the repositioning of the canards. The canards were also rounded and blended in to the chine similar to the Northrop Loral ad design. The laser target designator was also removed. It would have been interesting to see if the Revell design could have include a mesh inlet cover similar to the F-117A.
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If I'm not mistaken, and it's been years since then, the Revell kit is based on the 1/48 kits (both 1-seat and 2-seats) produced by Arii in Japan. interstigly enough, PE details for the Testors' kit fit the Arii kits.
 
elmayerle said:
Revell kit is based on the 1/48 kits (both 1-seat and 2-seats) produced by Arii in Japan
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Two seat concept from Arii. The inlets also have a louver in the face of the inlet. In one picture of the model it looks like a boundary layer diverter inside the inlet at the bottom. I don't know if that was a part of the original model from Arii or added by the modeler.
 

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One problem that's bothered me with the F-19 is its lack of internal volume. Looking at the Revell kit, the engines, main gear and weapons bay all interfere with each other. Of course I'm spoiled by the Microprose F-19, which could carry tons of ordnance in 4 weapons bays (something like 12 Mavericks, where the Revell example can carry 2).
 
flateric said:
Interesting that front view profiles of Testors kit and actual aircraft are strikingly close (except, of course, inward canted tails and these small fins). Again, we see some 'angled' structure from the front. I bet some observer's notes who probably have seen it in hangar have leaked. OK, just my guess.

BTW, story of F-19 kit described quite well in glamorous Curtis Pebbles 'Dark Eagles'.
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www.latimes.com

Tempest in a Toy Box : The Stealth Fighter Is So Secret the Pentagon Won't Admit It Exists. John Andrews Shocked Everyone by Building a Model of It. To Tell the Truth, He Says, It Wasn't All That Much Trouble.

Last spring, the Testor model kit company of Rockford, Ill., introduced its model of the super-secret F-19 stealth fighter and immediately created an international sensation.
www.latimes.com www.latimes.com
 
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overscan (PaulMM) said:
I think its certainly possible. Reminds me of the story of how when Marco Polo first saw a rhino he thought it was a unicorn.
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Considering that the written descriptions of a unicorn do not mention the bulk of the critter and do have 2-toes hooves with a tail with hair only on the end, I'm pretty sure that the (Greek) people describing unicorns were talking about rhinos... That they had seen in upper Egypt.
 
So I guess the question is....who came closest with their artwork/models/concept to the actual November 1988 reveal of the F-117.

Did anyone even come close?
 
djfawcett said:
testors with the Mig-37
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Hello,
basically speaking the MiG 37B "Ferret" was designed by the italians of Italeri, with very little input of Testors. And it was not based on particular scientific considerations. It had only to be very different by the F-19 (the molds of the F-19 were made by Italeri under request of Testors) to highlight a different approach to stealth by the Soviets. Only a marketing operation, and, sadly, not very brilliant.
 
cooks71 said:
And it was not based on particular scientific considerations. It had only to be very different by the F-19 (the molds of the F-19 were made by Italeri under request of Testors) to highlight a different approach to stealth by the Soviets.
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The MiG-37B was released in 1989. The first public image of the F-117A was released to the public on November 8, 1988. The release date of the model following the release of the USAF image of the F-117A would lead one to believe that the model was influenced by the concept of faceting, which would be found in the initial USAF released photo (below). If there is a description of how Italeri developed the MiG-37B design I think it would be very interesting read.
 

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Dynoman said:
The MiG-37B was released in 1989. The first public image of the F-117A was released to the public on November 8, 1988. The release date of the model following the release of the USAF image of the F-117A would lead one to believe that the model was influenced by the concept of faceting, which would be found in the initial USAF released photo (below). If there is a description of how Italeri developed the MiG-37B design I think it would be very interesting read.
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I interviewed Enzo Maio for my book, Enzo Is the artist that made the cover design for Italeri and ESCI in the 80's. He told me that the Ferret was on Italeri's drawing board in 1987, basically an year After the release of the F-19 in February 1986. No faceting, no real considerations about Radar Cross Section (they did not have any idea of these concepts). They Just did something that has to look opposite to the F-19. They waited an entire year to put It on the market because they got other stuff to develop in the meanwhile.
 
quellish said:
It was released by Testor's in 1987, about a year after the F-19 kit. FineScale Modeler reviewed it in April 1988.
The instruction manual includes some "technical notes" and references.

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Right, but Testors Just rebranded the kit from Italeri. Very Little input for the design by John Andrews, the man that was the creator of the F-19.
 
Dynoman said:
The MiG-37B was released in 1989. The first public image of the F-117A was released to the public on November 8, 1988. The release date of the model following the release of the USAF image of the F-117A would lead one to believe that the model was influenced by the concept of faceting, which would be found in the initial USAF released photo (below). If there is a description of how Italeri developed the MiG-37B design I think it would be very interesting read.
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Look at the similarity of the F-117 cockpit/nose and the Firefox fighter from the movie.
 
cooks71 said:
Right, but Testors Just rebranded the kit from Italeri. Very Little input for the design by John Andrews, the man that was the creator of the F-19.
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My understanding is that it was the other way around, that it originated with the Testors office in San Diego.
 
quellish said:
My understanding is that it was the other way around, that it originated with the Testors office in San Diego.
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I had the version from the people that worked for Italeri, unfortunately i was not there when they develop them (i mean the F-19 and the MiG37). John Andrews had 95% of merit of the F-19 (5% Is credited to his friend Jim Goodall), while for the MiG 37 there was Little interest to him to develop. The Italians wanted to replicate the enormous commercial success of the F-19 with the MiG37, but they failed. By the way the Ferret Is preferred by many people because It looks more "realistic" than the F-19. John Andrews went too far looking for a shape that gave an idea of "reduced RC"S with the F-19.
 
cooks71 said:
I had the version from the people that worked for Italeri, unfortunately i was not there when they develop them (i mean the F-19 and the MiG37). John Andrews had 95% of merit of the F-19 (5% Is credited to his friend Jim Goodall), while for the MiG 37 there was Little interest to him to develop. The Italians wanted to replicate the enormous commercial success of the F-19 with the MiG37, but they failed. By the way the Ferret Is preferred by many people because It looks more "realistic" than the F-19.
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By late 1986 Andrews knew quite a bit about the real aircraft (designation, program name, design features) but consciously chose to withhold it.

cooks71 said:
John Andrews went too far looking for a shape that gave an idea of "reduced RC"S with the F-19.
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Much of the "F-19" design was driven by a requirement to be easily transportable by C-5. Goodall and Andrews believed at the time that the "F-19" was transported to operational locations (or deployed in flight) from C-5 transports. This was based on the regular C-5s appearing at Burbank that were actually picking up F-117s and transporting them to Nevada to be reassembled.

The Andrews/Goodall "requirement" for the F-19 to fold up into a C-5 drove much of the shape and configuration - more so than RCS.
 
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quellish said:


By late 1986 Andrews knew quite a bit about the real aircraft (designation, program name, design features) but consciously chose to withhold it.



Much of the "F-19" design was driven by a requirement to be easily transportable by C-5. Goodall and Andrews believed at the time that the "F-19" was transported to operational locations (or deployed in flight) from C-5 transports. This was based on the regular C-5s appearing at Burbank that were actually picking up F-117s and transporting them to Nevada to be reassembled.

The Andrews/Goodall "requirement" for the F-19 to fold up into a C-5 drove much of the shape and configuration - more so than RCS.
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Andrews was ready with the design in 1985, the molds at Italeri were designer in autumn of the same year. He filed for the patent later. The design was inspired by the study of the "Radar Cross Section Handbok" by T.Ruck, were the drop shape was indicated that has the lowest RCS with certain radar frequencies (i studied the book by myself: it's a mess!). Maybe this Is not the best thread to Say that i wrote a book about the creation of the F-19 and Andrews' Life. The main source of information came from his son and Goodall (they were very kind to let me interview them) and written memo from Andrews. A lot of people involved involved in the F-19 are passed away, so It was difficult to gather a broad range of information and I can't Say they are all accurate 100 %. People fails with Memory, tend to romanticize things and so on. But It was fun to write and i'm aware that out there are many versions of this story, some of them are worth believing because are far more nicer than how things really turned out. But, i repeat, due to limitation of my sources, maybe I got some Little detail wrong.
 
cooks71 said:
Andrews was ready with the design in 1985, the molds at Italeri were designer in autumn of the same year. He filed for the patent later. The design was inspired by the study of the "Radar Cross Section Handbok" by T.Ruck, were the drop shape was indicated that has the lowest RCS with certain radar frequencies (i studied the book by myself: it's a mess!). Maybe this Is not the best thread to Say that i wrote a book about the creation of the F-19 and Andrews' Life. The main source of information came from his son and Goodall (they were very kind to let me interview them) and written memo from Andrews. A lot of people involved involved in the F-19 are passed away, so It was difficult to gather a broad range of information and I can't Say they are all accurate 100 %. People fails with Memory, tend to romanticize things and so on. But It was fun to write and i'm aware that out there are many versions of this story, some of them are worth believing because are far more nicer than how things really turned out. But, i repeat, due to limitation of my sources, maybe I got some Little detail wrong.
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George T. Ruck, not T Ruck, and he was just the editor.
 
cooks71 said:
Andrews was ready with the design in 1985, the molds at Italeri were designer in autumn of the same year. He filed for the patent later. The design was inspired by the study of the "Radar Cross Section Handbok" by T.Ruck, were the drop shape was indicated that has the lowest RCS with certain radar frequencies (i studied the book by myself: it's a mess!).
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Andrews was convinced that the F-19 was to be transported to operating locations inside a C-5. Goodall may have believed it would be deployed, mid-air, from the C-5. This "requirement" drove the design of the "F-19"

www.latimes.com

Tempest in a Toy Box : The Stealth Fighter Is So Secret the Pentagon Won't Admit It Exists. John Andrews Shocked Everyone by Building a Model of It. To Tell the Truth, He Says, It Wasn't All That Much Trouble.

Last spring, the Testor model kit company of Rockford, Ill., introduced its model of the super-secret F-19 stealth fighter and immediately created an international sensation.
www.latimes.com www.latimes.com

While the F-19 model was in production, but not yet released, Andrews came into more information about the "stealth fighter", including the correct designation. I say "more" because he had seen it - and other aircraft - while on trips to Nevada in the early 1980s.

The MiG-37 model was a John Andrews design that was produced by Testor's, patented by Testor's, and then produced by Italeri. The MiG-37, StingBat, and SR-75 were attempts to capture some of that "F-19" success with later projects, but it wasn't until the "Sport Model" and "Roswell" models that Testors was able to replicate some of that success. But those are different stories.
 
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quellish said:
Andrews was convinced that the F-19 was to be transported to operating locations inside a C-5. Goodall may have believed it would be deployed, mid-air, from the C-5. This "requirement" drove the design of the "F-19"

www.latimes.com

Tempest in a Toy Box : The Stealth Fighter Is So Secret the Pentagon Won't Admit It Exists. John Andrews Shocked Everyone by Building a Model of It. To Tell the Truth, He Says, It Wasn't All That Much Trouble.

Last spring, the Testor model kit company of Rockford, Ill., introduced its model of the super-secret F-19 stealth fighter and immediately created an international sensation.
www.latimes.com www.latimes.com

While the F-19 model was in production, but not yet released, Andrews came into more information about the "stealth fighter", including the correct designation. I say "more" because he had seen it - and other aircraft - while on trips to Nevada in the early 1980s.

The MiG-37 model was a John Andrews design that was produced by Testor's, patented by Testor's, and then produced by Italeri. The MiG-37, StingBat, and SR-75 were attempts to capture some of that "F-19" success with later projects, but it wasn't until the "Sport Model" and "Roswell" models that Testors was able to replicate some of that success. But those are different stories.
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All correct and thank you for all the information you provided. The patent was essential in order to market (and protect) the product in the US in the following years. You could find all the Testors design patentend from 1990 onward, with validity until 2004 if i remember well. About to MiG 37, I apologize, I just report what they say the Italians. By the way, I never said it until now, i find that the MiG37 is a brilliant design.
 

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