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European trainers projects 1989-2004 : M-346 and Mako origins.

Archibald

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Hello!

I've browsed the forum before creating this thread but found no evidence this had been discussed before.

Thread to discuss European trainers projects of the 90's, which led to the (failed) Mako, M-346 and its russian counterpart Yak-130. This could also include upgraded Alphajet proposals by Dassault and Dasa.

Anybody interested ?
I'm actually building a Mako (from Italeri X-35) and, brosing pics I've encountered various times the name "AT-2000".
 

Jemiba

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The EADS MAKO trainer, now MAKO HEAT (for Heigh Energy Advanced Trainer)
isn't dead, I think, it's just still waiting to be born ! EADS still is pregnant with
that bird and on the ILA 2006 (without the 2004 mock-up) it was said, that full
scale develpoment could be started with ease ... ;D
But without a relatively clear political decision about the european training scheme .. ::)
 

Matej

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Re: Guess what contest - models from the German wind tunnels

This one? Hmm, should be interesting stuff.
 

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Mark Nankivil

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Re: Guess what contest - models from the German wind tunnels

Sure looks like the EADS Mako. Whatever happened with that program? Anyone know of good drawings of the Mako?

Enjoy the Day! Mark
 

Just call me Ray

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Re: Guess what contest - models from the German wind tunnels

Well looks like I'm pretty good overall at aircraft ID ;)

And as for Mako, I hear it's pretty much in what in Hollywood they would term "development hell."
 

Matej

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The program is fine except the little detail that it has not any customer. The MAKO (or AT-2000 then) was firstly aimed for the european customers as the advanced jet trainer/light attack aircraft. Then in 96/97 period was offered together with the Hyundai in the Souths Korea KTX-2 competition, but South Korea decided to cooperate with the Lockheed Martin on T-50. In the same time the attack wariant was proposed for the South Africa, but it decided to buy Gripens. From 1999 the most perspective customer was United Arab Emirates, howerver the negotiations went nowhere and the SAE bought Aermacchi M346. As for now, some 80 mil USD was spent to the program by DASA/EADS and currently there is not any real customer, willing to spend another bunch of money for the development.
 

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Trident

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Matej said:
This one? Hmm, should be interesting stuff.

It's not quite the same one, apparently. The strakes are different (which is to say, non-existant) and the surface details on the fuselage spine aren't the same. Nevertheless, the Mako sure would have been a pretty plane!
 

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Trident

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Here's a close-up of the EJ200-ish nozzle:

EDIT: Added a photo of the planform that I originally forgot to take...
 

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TinWing

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Personally, I'd break the thread down to just the unbuilt Mako, since the M-346/Yak-130 are hardly "unbuilt," and have far different origins. The proposed, unbuilt Alpha Jet variants belong to the 1980s and, arguably, aren't relevant either. The only really comparable and contemporary design is the mysterious Saab "Configuration 518," which looks like a cross between the B3LA and the early Model 2102 predecessor to the Gripen.

I'll post the EADS sourced drawings.

In addition, you can find a good early 3-view, most likely manufacturer sourced, in the November 4, 1996 issue of Aviation Week. There was also an Air International article in May 2002. I have both.

The project originated as the AT-2000, and attempts were made to sell it to South Africa as a Gripen competitor and to South Korea as an alternative to the T-50.
 

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Just call me Ray

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Matej said:
EJ200 was the first option. Later version of MAKO used exclusively General Electric F414M.

Well that's kinda weird, I would think they'd want to stick to being as "all-European" as they can.
 

Matej

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Why? There is not any reason for that. MAKO was offered to the countries, where the international (and also American) equipment on board is much advantage than disadvantage.

Exclusive teaming agreement between EADS and General Electric was signed on 5 December 2002.
 

datafuser

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I am wondering what is the point of incorporating RCS-reduction measures such as aligned edges, caret-shaped intakes, sawtooth panels & a faceted forward fuselage into a trainer/attacker, while carrying all weapons and fuel tanks externally. I guess the MAKO would not have extensive stealth coatings either, to make it cheap.

Is the MAKO's claimed RCS figure of 1m2 at 24NM (44km) tactically meaningful? If so, against what?
 

Matej

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Dassault/SAAB Eurotrainer

SES identified as EADS MAKO
TET identified as Aermacchi M346
SET identified as CASA ATX

But did anybody hear about Dassault/SAAB proposal?
 

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Matej

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Sometimes its about the most weird places.

http://www.efieldsolutions.com/scattering.php
 

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