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Early Myasishchev bombers: the DVB- series

ucon

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Hi to all.
Today is unknown variant of well-known DVB-102.
More info in www.avicopress.ru
Next some days will follow all DVB-102 variants from VM-1 to VM-5. Wellcome!
Regards
 

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ucon

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Hi to all
Next variant of DVB-102: VM-1 and VM-1A.
More info in www.avicopress.ru
 

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ucon

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Hi to all
Next variant of DVB-102: VM-2
More info in www.avicopress.ru
 

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ucon

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Hi to all!
Two more variants of DVB-102 you may find in www.avicopress.ru:
VM-3 and VM-3A
Regards
 

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ucon

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Hi to all!
One more variant of DVB-102 you may find in www.avicopress.ru:
VM-4
Regards
 

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ucon

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Hi all!
New DVB-102 pix were added in www.avicopress.ru:
VM-4G
VM-4D
VM-5. For now all variants of DVB-102 (from VM-1 to VM-5) fully described with cutaway drawings, line-drawing and action pix.
Regards
 

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hesham

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Stargazer2006 said:
It seems to be the DVB-202.


I guess not,because the DVB-202 was appeared in 1944 and ended in 1946.
 

famvburg

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Based on the shape of the nose, I'd say the 302, or maybe even 402(?). IIRC, the 202 had a B-29 type of nose and the 302 onwards had more pointed nose and raised canopy.
 

PlanesPictures

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here are top views of DVB-202 and DVB-302
 

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Stargazer2006

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I believe the date "1948" is not right for this project. To me the design is closer to the DVB-202 (not "DVD", Jozef!) because of the engines (the -302 and -402 had more streamlined engines), even though the cockpit is different.
 

PlanesPictures

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thanks, I corrected it. Size of DVB-202 and DVB-302 was comparable to size of Tu-4 (B-29)
 

famvburg

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Ok, so the top view on the right is the 302 and the one on the left is the 202? Many years ago when I got some drawings of them, the 202 was like a high wing B-29 with radial engines, and that's how I built my model. The 302 was similar but had large Vee engines and a longer, pointed nose, I think I stretch formed one from a model rocket nose cone and modified a Lancaster canopy and IIRC, it had a larger, squared vertical tail & I'm sure I used a C-130 vertical. These two views look the same except for the engines. Is that a correct interpretation??
 

hesham

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Also the wing was in the middle of the fuselage in my picture,and different
in DVB-202 and DVB-302,make a comparison;
 

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Stargazer2006

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My understanding is that the one on the left is the -302 while the one on the right is the -202. Look at the shape of the engines. The 302's are more streamline and extend behind the wing. That's what led me to conclude initially that the picture represented an iteration of the -202 because of the straight trailing edge, although the wing's shape is a little different.
 

Stargazer2006

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After taking a look at Tony Buttler's Secret Projects volume on Soviet sombers, I have confirmation that the images depicting the nose of the DVB-302 as being B-29-like may not be accurate. Indeed, here is a model of the DVB-302 as well as a comparison of profile views with the DVB-302, which both clearly indicate that the nose and cockpit arrangement were closer to hesham's picture than what we know of the DVB-202. My bet is on an intermediary design, either an iteration of the DVB-202 or an early DVB-302. But again, certainly not a 1948 design, considering that these two designs (also designated VM-22 and VM-23) were developed in 1944 and 1945 respectively.

Engines could be of help, but I'm no specialist:
  • The VM-22 was to use four M71FTK turbocharged engines
  • The VM-22A variant was to use four ASh-72TKM engines (other sources call them AL-72TKM).
  • The VM-23 was to use four AM-46TK2 engines (though the same M71FTKengines as the VM-22 are also quoted).
 

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PlanesPictures

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Top views of DVB-202 and -302 are based on AvicoPress drawings ( I saw original MDB's drawings, too) and they are correct. Four engined DVB-402 was based on some DVB-101 or -102 (I hope I wasn't able to find its rendered picture) but on scheme is huge four engined bomber. I believe they are in the same scale. Then its size is comparable with size of three versions of six engined strategic MDB bomber - they were presented on this forum. Only Ucon will be able tell us what is it
 

famvburg

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Yep, those two side views are what my 202 and 302 models look like and those are either the same or similar drawings that I got a few years ago.
 

hesham

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Again

look to the wing position,it was different project.
 

PlanesPictures

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OK, I found it. Top view is view of next variant of DVB-302. Source Our wings from AvicoPress. In this source is noted older version of DVB-302 as I sent to you, too because on copy of original material from MDB is picture of this version and project number 23 from 1945. Model of new DVB-302 bomber is on one photo (is it only one source?) and it could be from 1948. I have done top/side/front views plus three action scenes.
I remember I asked in that time what is DVB-302 on last sent picture, too but I forgot answer.
 

Stargazer2006

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hesham said:
look to the wing position,it was different project.

Granted. The wing position is different. After doing quite a bit of comparing, superimposing and resizing, I noticed a few other differences, such as the length of the wings, proximity of outer engines to inner engines, width of rear fuselage and so forth.

The fact that this project is not the DVB-202, -302 or -402 as we know them does not exclude, however, that it results from the same general design philosophy and was likely studied in the same period. In the late 1940s, Myassishchev was already developing more advanced projects. Also, since the original source of your GlobalSecurity.org image is unknown, and is likely American, the drawing may still depict a DVB design. The author could have misinterpreted some details if he drew his plan from photos for instance, and he may have been approximate in his assessment of the chronology.

I'm attaching an updated comparison of DVB-202 and DVB-302 profiles, this time with the DVB-402. If we are to believe these, quite a few of the images previously identified as the DVB-302 actually depict the -202 and the -402. I don't know... I hope we can get someone to clean up the mess between these different versions!
 

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famvburg

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Thanks for doing the side views. Now, is there any info on that 402? thanks.
 

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Two scans for next discuss
 

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  • DVB-302 from OurWings.jpg
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Stargazer2006

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Considering the increased fuselage length ahead of the wing and slightly shorter rear cockpit area, I'd say the latter is definitely the DVB-402.

However, the model I posted further above seems to display a DVB-302 which already had the Boeing-style tail of the DVB-402...
 

PlanesPictures

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oh, I forgot top view... Source Our Wings from AvicoPress
 

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overscan (PaulMM)

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Why are we even discussing Hesham's image? Looks like a dodgy pre-end-of-cold-war graphic - Tupolev "Barge", "Bear" etc.
 

Pioneer

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hesham said:
look to the wing position,it was different project.
!

Sorry, but did any of these DB-series of bombers make it to mock-up stage??

Regards
Pioneer
 

hesham

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Hi,


here is the Myasishchev VM-4D or DVB-102 No.15,a project of 1945.


http://ljavia.livejournal.com/22589.html
 

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JFC Fuller

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The DVB-302 model appears to show two defensive turrets under the rear fuselage rather than one, one forward and one aft of the upper-rear turret, it looks like the one furthest forward would be able to fire direct-aft under the aft-most turret.
 

hesham

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Nice find Wingknut,

and here is a side view to Myasishchev VM-18,it was a project for day bomber DB-108 with
2 VK-108 engines,1945.

http://kplanes.tumblr.com/post/140471031555/k-planes-episode-95-russian-bombers
 

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hesham

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Hi,

here is a little known Myasishchev Bomber Projects,I can't ID them well.
 

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borovik

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http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,2080.0/
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,1660.0.html
 

hesham

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Sorry for this double post my dear Borovik.
 

blackkite

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Hi!
http://thelib.ru/books/nikolay_yakubovich/myasischev_neudobnyy_geniy_zabytye_pobedy_sovetskoy_aviacii-read-2.html

And
http://forums.airbase.ru/2006/10/t51365,3--nenauchnaya-fantastika-super-bomber-vtoroj-mirovoj.html

http://www.aviastar.org/air/russia/mjas-102.php

http://www.airwar.ru/enc/bww2/dvb102.html

http://alternathistory.com/opytnyi-dalnii-vysotnyi-bombardirovshchik-dvb-102-sssr

Which one is correct?
 

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blackkite

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Hi!
https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/313180-myasishchev-intercontinental-bomber-project/

http://alternathistory.com/mezhkontinentalnyi-bombardirovshchik-myasishcheva-proekt-1946-g

ASH-73 engine.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shvetsov_ASh-73

AM-39 engine.
http://xn--80aafy5bs.xn--p1ai/aviamuseum/dvigateli-i-vooruzhenie/aviamotorostroenie/aviamotory-sssr/porshnevye-i-dizelnye/porshnevoj-aviatsionnyj-dvigatel-am-39/
"Aircraft piston engine MIKULIN am-39.
Developer: OKB A.a. Mikulin
Creation year: 1942
Am 39 piston engine created by a designer A.a. Mikulin. Was a further development of the am-37 engine based on am-38F with two-speed MONITORING, intercooler and bespoplavkovymi carburettors to-39BP. Development was started in 1942, KB plant No. 300 (OKB-300), individual nodes of the prototype were manufactured in factories No. 24 and no. 45. In January 1943 the year conducted the first test of lapping engine variant am 39 with 4 four carburettors.
During the period 1943-1946 Gg. several modifications of the engine. In March 1944 the year am-39 passed the State tests, but in a great series did not enter production. In April 1944 the year 10 copies. Am-39 was produced at factory No. 45, May-June 22. Redid at plant No. 300 of the am-38F using nodes, manufactured by the No. 45.
Installed on airplanes: ITP (1942), I-220 (1943), RRT (1944).
Modifications:
Am-39-am 38, 1500/1800 HP, carburettor.
Am-39A-am-38F, 1500/1800 HP (on assignment — 1700-1800 HP) supercharged petrol from the am-38F, but with 2-hskorostnoj and water-air intercooler. Passed state tests in March 1944 onwards, and in July the flight tests.
Am-39A-TK-TK-turbocharged b. Tested on the plane and-224 in February, 1944.
Am-39B (s-39B-TC) is 1580/1890 HP, a variation of the preceding type with 2-мя turbochargers TC-300B and air-air intercooler. Tested in June 1944 year by plane and-224.
Am-39B — with a single turbocharger AMTK-1 installed on only one engine block (amorphous), on the other hand, the exhaust silencer.
Am-39f with — with new unilateral RCM, you forced on the turnover and charged, power 1800/1800 HP in November 1944 year passed the manufacturer's tests, then flying on a plane "63".
Am-39f with — the previous water injection on Afterburner mode.
Am-39FK-forkamernym-c/1600 1850 HP at the beginning of 1946 year produced two experienced instance and spent factory testing. In 1947 was the year released another seven engines. On State tests am 39FK not pred'javljalsja.
Am-39FN (FNV) is big with direct injection, based on am-38F. OKB-300 was developed from mid-1944 years. Improved CMS hydraulics, was notable for the increased diameter of the impeller, it increased the diameter of the valves, suction partrubkami on engine type "Allison V-1710. Power initial-1600/1850 HP, weight-970 kg. Tests were conducted from August 1944 years, official factory testing took place in January 1945 year. In the summer of 1947 year engines were tested on the Tu-2 bomber. Work ceased in September 1945 by Decree of the Mikulin, in connection with the successful modification of the am-39FN2.
Am-39FN2-analogue am-39FN am-based 42, 1600/1850 HP, weighs 1080 kg. In 1 quarter of 1946 onwards were made of 5th instances which state tests.
Am-39 family engines were installed on the aircraft experienced: "68" (TU-4) and 231 (2D, MIG-3DD), ITP (m-2), VP (k), TIS-Ma,-224, in small series TU-10. Predusmatrovalos' their use in the draft ATP aircraft.
TACTICAL-am-39:
Type: V-shaped (60°) aircraft engine
Power, HP: 1800
Rotation frequency, revs/min: 2350
Nominal conditions
the power of the Earth, HP: 1580
power at an altitude of 1100 m, HP: 1650
Nominal specific parameters
specific gravity:-
liter power, HP/l.: 33.85"
 

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blackkite

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I think that this design was powered by liquid cooling engine.

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=18500.0;attach=569712;image
 

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PlanesPictures

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The engines for first and second FF versions
 

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