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Dassault Rafale

Deltafan

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France orders $2.3 billion upgrade for Rafale warplanes

https://www.defensenews.com/global/europe/2019/01/14/france-orders-upgraded-rafale-warplanes-for-23-billion/
 

Hood

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How would they pay for all that stuff? I thought they were paying for Flankers in palm oil? They can barely afford to pay to keep their share of K-FX going either. In fact if they did buy Rafales it could well spell the end for the I-FX programme.
 

galgot

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How would they pay for all that stuff? I thought they were paying for Flankers in palm oil? They can barely afford to pay to keep their share of K-FX going either. In fact if they did buy Rafales it could well spell the end for the I-FX programme.
Not to say it's gonna happen , but it may be about palm oil indeed . On July 2018 UE stated the end of palm oil as 2030, provoking the ire of Indonesia , while Total import hundreds of thousands of tons per year for using in "biofuels". Total is a very powerful lobby in Fr, and Fr is member of UE... So...
I suppose each are discussing about finding ways to sell their stuff.
 
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GTX

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Yeah, I will believe this when I see the first photos of aircraft in TNI-AU markings. I am sure the interest is there but as to the budget...
 

Antonio

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Dear members,

please try to stay in the topic

Thanks in advance
 

Deltafan

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It seems that the article in the French newspaper La Tribune, the source of the information, is contradicted, or in any case minimized, by the Indonesian Minister of Defense.


Wait and see...
 

TomcatViP

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I fail to see how a suspected major Rafale strike (military source - SEAD - NATO member) could be out of subject?
Assessing the credibility of an information by looking at the point of equilibrium and balance is all about what is done in such case.
This is not l'ORTF.
 
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Antonio

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May I suggest to start a dedicated thread about "suspected major air strike: Rafale fighters involved" which probably will raise conflictive posts due to its nature.

As a result, a thread focused on technical aspects could be kept here for Rafale. Thus information related to forum core interest is best preserved.
Political threads alone allow for better monitoring and can be cleaned or closed if necessary.
 

TomcatViP

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There is nothing Political in compiling the story and assessing information about a reported strike.
Forbes also has it reported on the same terms.
 
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Antonio

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There is nothing Political in compiling the story and assessing information about a reported strike.
Forbes also has it reported on the same terms.
Of course not.

But that's the kind of post that has a higher risk to raise political conflict between members...in fact, moderation was already requested for it.

I personally agree that the post is still right for the Bar, but a dedicated thread would make it easier to moderate if needed.

Thanks in advance
 

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The first batch of five Indian Air Force Rafale is likely to arrive in India by end of July. The aircraft will be inducted at Air Force Station Ambala on July 29 subject to weather," the IAF said.
Reports suggest that the Rafale jets are likely to be deployed in the Ladakh sector on the Eastern Border with China in view of the border row with the country.

I am however sceptical regarding Rafale upgrades as contracted. IMOHO upgrades would have had been done in India. But if the plane is rushed into service, what would it be of it?
 

Bhurki

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But if the plane is rushed into service, what would it be of it?
"IAF pilots are flying the new fighter jets for at least 1,500 hours in France as part of the induction process into service."
Training is well underway right now, so those jets will probably have half a squadron worth of pilots ready from get go.
 

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The first batch of five Indian Air Force Rafale is likely to arrive in India by end of July. The aircraft will be inducted at Air Force Station Ambala on July 29 subject to weather," the IAF said.
Reports suggest that the Rafale jets are likely to be deployed in the Ladakh sector on the Eastern Border with China in view of the border row with the country.

I am however sceptical regarding Rafale upgrades as contracted. IMOHO upgrades would have had been done in India. But if the plane is rushed into service, what would it be of it?
maybe due to urgency regarding high altitude conflict?
in that sense, is the Rafale's configuration better suited for that role than the Flanker?
I often hear that the Mirage 2000s are optimally suited for conflict in that area
it might also be useful to bring in something dissimilar than the Flankers China also uses
 

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Hammer rumored on Indian Rafale:
Hammer (Highly Agile Modular Munition Extended Range) is a precision-guided missile developed by French defence major Safran. The missile was originally designed and manufactured for the French Air Force and Navy.
"The order for the HAMMER missiles is being processed and the French authorities have agreed to supply them to us at a short notice for our Rafale combat aircraft," government sources told ANI.

 

Bhurki

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Hammer rumored on Indian Rafale:
Hammer (Highly Agile Modular Munition Extended Range) is a precision-guided missile developed by French defence major Safran. The missile was originally designed and manufactured for the French Air Force and Navy.
"The order for the HAMMER missiles is being processed and the French authorities have agreed to supply them to us at a short notice for our Rafale combat aircraft," government sources told ANI.

Since these are being bought under 'emergency powers' which has a limit of INR 5 bn ($80M), procurement numbers are likely to be about 300 at maximum. (AASM is an expensive jdam, albeit with a 3-4x tossing range)
 
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galgot

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Archibald

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Covid tests and Rafale... can't see any connection, except maybe "It's christmas day in India, avec en prime, le cadeau bonus !"

Aside that, can't help thinking that the Armée de l'air hasn't that much tankers and Rafale to spare those days... but we happily déshabille Pierre (Armée de l'Air) pour habiller Paul (India). Oh well...
 

galgot

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Covid tests and Rafale... can't see any connection, except maybe "It's christmas day in India, avec en prime, le cadeau bonus !"

Aside that, can't help thinking that the Armée de l'air hasn't that much tankers and Rafale to spare those days... but we happily déshabille Pierre (Armée de l'Air) pour habiller Paul (India). Oh well...
Le client est roi ... :) Well, anyway if that can help.
 

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helmutkohl

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helmutkohl

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Deltafan

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Greece to get 18 Rafales! 8 of which are free from Francia

Nothing is certain. While there have been a lot of articles in the past few days, for the moment the original information, which appeared in the Greek press, has still not been confirmed. We should know more on September 10.

According to the newspaper "Parapolitika", the Greek Prime Minister, Kyriakos Mitsotakis and the French President Macron would have agreed on the acquisition by the Greek air force of 18 Rafale fighter planes. According to the article, of the 18 fighters, 10 will be of new construction, so a squadron of Rafale C F3-R, and the last 8 will be older models, in service in the French Air Force. According to "Parapolitika", the most amazing thing is that the 8 oldest devices will be offered FREE to Greece ...

Defense cooperation Greece-France will take place on September 10

As the newspaper Proto Thema reveals in its Sunday edition, the emergency armament program will amount to 10 billion euros for the purchase of new weapons systems.

According to the available information, the armament package will include the purchase of 18 Rafale fighters, the acquisition of new frigates, the complete modernization of MEKO type frigates, the purchase of torpedoes as well as other ammunition and other weapons systems for all three branches of the E.D
 

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It seems also through those last rumors (Croatia & Greece) that the French gov looks toward divesting part of the early Rafale lot (even for free) to buy some new tranches for the AdlA.

Regarding Greece, I wonder if a refit of their M2K won't be in the plan.
 

Grey Havoc

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Things are looking pretty ugly in the Mediterranean at the moment.
 

Deltafan

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Deltafan

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It seems also through those last rumors (Croatia & Greece) that the French gov looks toward divesting part of the early Rafale lot (even for free) to buy some new tranches for the AdlA.
Yes, there is a gap for the deliveries of Rafale to the Armée de l'Air between 2024 and 2027. A recent report of two members of the French National Assembly proposed a new order to fill it and to sell an equivalent number of aircraft already in service with the Armée de l'Air.

On a French forum it was said that a decision on the new order "could" be announced next Thursday. As usual: to be confirmed.
 

TomcatViP

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It seems also through those last rumors (Croatia & Greece) that the French gov looks toward divesting part of the early Rafale lot (even for free) to buy some new tranches for the AdlA.

Regarding Greece, I wonder if a refit of their M2K won't be in the plan.
Already signed (December 2019)

Yes but that one has all to look like a minimalist upgrade. More probably a refresh. I had more in mind something more robust like the 2000-9
 

Deltafan

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Article Reuters :


Greece is in talks with France and other countries over arms purchases to boost its armed forces, a government official told Reuters on Tuesday (...)

“We are in talks with France, and not only with France, in order to increase our country’s defence potential,” a government official told Reuters. “Within this framework, there is a discussion which includes the purchase of aircraft.”

The official added that no final decisions had been made. Greek media reported on Monday that Athens had agreed to acquire 18 Dassault-made Rafale fighter jets from France.

“There is no agreement as written in several media. However, there are discussions on a number of subjects,” a French government source said, without providing further detail.
 

TomcatViP

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I think it's dead. There is no way Greek are gonna validate a multi-billions dollars buy to a nation that led them deal with the flow of migrants, mostly unsupported. The fire in Lesbos camp will re-ignite internal debates.
 

stealthflanker

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Guess it's a good capability increase for the Greek. as Meteor can provide some BVR advantage
 

TomcatViP

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Meteor will be available on F-35 as quick as they get their order complete. And F-35 is cheaper!

The only reason I see Rafale winning will be for the Exocet. But since foreign missiles (non-US) are now available with better range...

I know I know, you'll say ITAR free and other similar lullabies. But think a second: if Greeks start throwing anti-ship missiles (think at the number of casualties!) at another NATO member, you can be sure that, at this moment, ITAR free will have no meanings...

EDIT (see below):
what a complete surprise. Great thing.
 
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galgot

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Seem to be confirmed, btw :
Gooooogle translated :
18 planes, the mix of new ones and ones taken from AdlA not specified yet.
But wait until the thing is signed...
 

Deltafan

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I think it's dead. There is no way Greek are gonna validate a multi-billions dollars buy to a nation that led them deal with the flow of migrants, mostly unsupported. The fire in Lesbos camp will re-ignite internal debates.
Your information to SPF readers on France in general as well as on the Rafale and its customers in particular are still as relevant ... ;)
 

TomcatViP

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Really? I think is an informative statement?! So, now I understand ;) ;)
 

TomcatViP

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French MoD, Mme Parly got it perfectly:
“For the first time, a European country wants to acquire Rafale fighter jets. This announcement is a success for the French aeronautics industry,
Also Dassault statement:
This announcement illustrates the strength of the partnership that has linked the Greek Air Force and Dassault Aviation for more than 45 years, and demonstrates the enduring strategic relationship between Greece and France.
Greece ordered 40 Mirage F1 from Dassault Aviation in 1974, then 40 Mirage 2000 in 1985 and finally 15 Mirage 2000-5 in the year 2000; this latest contract also includes the modernization of 10 Mirage 2000 to the 2000-5 standard with a large contribution from Greek industry.
 
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