Dassault Mirage 2000

hesham

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,and
the Mirage-2000 was demonstrated incredible two maneuverings,one of them
cleared by made a circles in radius less than 100 meters,and on altitude less
than 30 meters,can you imagine ?.
I can perfectly well imagine a delta wing fighter having a better instantaneous turn rate than an f16a, enough for one very tight circle.

You misunderstand me Totoro,

in dogfight,Mirage won easy,but in individual demonstration for it after
that show,it made impossible two maneuverings,and I explain one of them,
and may the radius was less than 80 meters,not 100 !,I saw it in our TV by
that time ?.

The last thing in this point is; the speed of that maneuvering was less
than 100 km/h,I swear by my God,I can't believe my eyes to these days,
looks like you saw an aircraft with piston engine do the show ?!.
 
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hesham

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Mirage 2000 has better ITR, F-16 has better STR. The winner of a dogfight, as usual, would depend more on the pilot than the plane.

Yes,but also depended on capability of the aircraft with it,and F-16 put
in key position,but the Mirage-2000 easily evaded from the attacker.
 

TomcatViP

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M2K C phasing out (-5 and D models will remain in service for quite some time):

iiJtCMMD.jpg


 

Archibald

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It was high time... the 35 years old RDI was utterly obsolete, TBH. Although still goood enough to patrol most of the skies.

In passing, this mean the end of the -530 family of missiles (Matra is long gone, and so is Jean Luc Lagardère) from french service ? Only MICA remains, and Meteor. No idea if Magic 2 is still hanging around ?

After the Atar in 2014 (Mirage F1) and 2016 (S.E) its another page of history going away.
 

eagle

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In passing, this mean the end of the -530 family of missiles (Matra is long gone, and so is Jean Luc Lagardère) from french service ? Only MICA remains, and Meteor. No idea if Magic 2 is still hanging around ?
The 530D Missile was retired in 2012 already. That left the M2000C armed with only 2 Magic 2 missiles plus the gun since then. (The article also mentions this)
No idea if the Magic 2 will be kept. The upgraded M2000D can use the MICA IR so there would be no real need for the old Magics.
 

Forest Green

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The facts. At excess power of 0 FPS, STR for F-16A at same altitude and loadout is 14.5deg/s vs 12.5m/s for the Mirage 2000. The maximum ITR of the Mirage 2000 is 23.5deg/s under the same conditions vs 20deg/s for the F-16A. The answer for the F-16A is to climb while turning to make the Mirage bleed energy until it can't follow.
1656080572705.png
1656080582052.png
 

Archibald

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The 530D Missile was retired in 2012 already. That left the M2000C armed with only 2 Magic 2 missiles plus the gun since then. (The article also mentions this)
Never realized this before. Sounds a bit silly to retire the 530D so long before its 2000 carrier. The 530F, yes, with the F1 in 2014: but the 530D was related to the 2000... probably a matter of 2000-5 & Rafales having MICA. But still, it amounted to castrating the 2000C RDIs...
 

hesham

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Thank you Forest,and Please Moderator,

we can split this discussing to be in new topic,and the title;Mirage-2000
vs F-16 in Maneuvering.

In the dogfight,the Mirage-2000 made maximum turn to the right and
released itself,but F-16 couldn't catch it,and both of the two pilots were
seasoned in maneuvering.
 

H_K

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Sounds a bit silly to retire the 530D so long before its 2000 carrier.
The Super 530D missiles probably couldn’t be extended any longer past 2012. So the Mirage 2000Cs soldiered on with only Magics… which was just fine for their role (fighter conversion training, close air support and air patrol).
 

Forest Green

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Thank you Forest,and Please Moderator,

we can split this discussing to be in new topic,and the title;Mirage-2000
vs F-16 in Maneuvering.

In the dogfight,the Mirage-2000 made maximum turn to the right and
released itself,but F-16 couldn't catch it,and both of the two pilots were
seasoned in maneuvering.
F-16 pilot should have made use of God's g, i.e. gravity - over the top. But you illustrate a point about ITR. The F-16 can't follow a Mirage-2000's ITR but there are ways of countering it.
 

hesham

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F-16 pilot should have made use of God's g, i.e. gravity - over the top. But you illustrate a point about ITR. The F-16 can't follow a Mirage-2000's ITR but there are ways of countering it.

Of course,but clearly the Mirage-2000 had some advantages over F-16A.

I have a surprise for Dassault,I make a Super Mirage for it,from my creation,
it consider a development of Type-2000,has good features than it.,and powered by a single engine,and I call it Mirage-7000.
 

Forest Green

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Of course,but clearly the Mirage-2000 had some advantages over F-16A.

I have a surprise for Dassault,I make a Super Mirage for it,from my creation,
it consider a development of Type-2000,has good features than it.,and powered by a single engine,and I call it Mirage-7000.
Absolutely, the Mirage 2000's advantage is lower wing loading and hence more lift. The F-16's advantage is less drag and more thrust.

Ever heard of this?


1656259515440.png
 

TomcatViP

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Don't forget that a pure delta has generally more trim drag when it comes to manoeuvring.

With the M2K, AMDBA did the best they could have done at the time but, increasingly as the 90's begun, high AoA being the name of the game, the M2K loose gradually its superb against other competitors (Mig29, F/A-18). Instead of doing a major upgrade, Dassault put all its money in the Rafale basket that did not bring much improvements in that field. Oh yeah, the Rafale can 9g turn at a higher speed. Ok.

I do think Teja iterations on that regard very interesting in that perspective (the semi sized rear horizontal ctrls or even the Levcons), telling us what could have been a Super M2K.
 

hesham

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I have a surprise for Dassault,I make a Super Mirage for it,from my creation,
it consider a development of Type-2000,has good features than it.,and powered by a single engine,and I call it Mirage-7000.

W can't ignore that,the Delta wing shape has many advantages than normal wing.
 

Archibald

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Don't forget that a pure delta has generally more trim drag when it comes to manoeuvring.

With the M2K, AMDBA did the best they could have done at the time but, increasingly as the 90's begun, high AoA being the name of the game, the M2K loose gradually its superb against other competitors (Mig29, F/A-18). Instead of doing a major upgrade, Dassault put all its money in the Rafale basket that did not bring much improvements in that field. Oh yeah, the Rafale can 9g turn at a higher speed. Ok.

I do think Teja iterations on that regard very interesting in that perspective (the semi sized rear horizontal ctrls or even the Levcons), telling us what could have been a Super M2K.

SNECMA really did not helped, a M53-P5 past 10 tons thrust would have been REALLY welcome, from the late 1980's onwards. The F-16 got 30% more thrust along its life (it also took a lot of weight, in passing - LWF did not really lived that long, by Block 30 it was mostly dead and buried).
 
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