Current mystery aircrafts/urban legends

[Matej]

Looking back I realized, that during the 90s we had a lot of famous mysterious and hypothetical projects, from which almost all were explained as a disinterpretation or fake. Rumours like F-19, Brilliant Buzard, Aurora, Northrop AX-17, TR-3 Black Manta and such. My question is, if we have some similar mysterious projects now, that are known worldwide. I cant think of any.

 

[Antonio]

I can't think today about anything similar to the US Black Projects or the Soviet Fake/Missinterpretated Projects phenomena.

 

[Orionblamblam]

I cant think of any.

Me neither.

Hypothesis: in the '90's, there were a *lot* of such supposed wonderplanes. In the years since, none of them have come to pass. People have grown accustomed to technological stagnation, and our dreams have withered.

 

[Stargazer2006]

I often think that growing up in the 1950s must have been a marvelous experience, what with all the rapid technological advances and powerful visions of the future. Every month you had magazines such as Popular Science, Popular Mechanics and the likes full to the brim with all sorts of innovations and hundreds of possibilities to improve our daily life in the near future... or so they thought. Today you get a new plane every year or about, and even then it's rarely very different from what already exists.

 

[quellish]

Looking back I realized, that during the 90s we had a lot of famous mysterious and hypothetical projects, from which almost all were explained as a disinterpretation or fake. Rumours like F-19, Brilliant Buzard, Aurora, Northrop AX-17, TR-3 Black Manta and such. My question is, if we have some similar mysterious projects now, that are known worldwide. I cant think of any.

Lockheed Darkstar-like UAV reported in AWST in 2003
Blackstar/Brilliant Buzzard
Northrop NGB demonstrator
Northrop air-launched HALE UAV
any "classified UAV" mentioned in AWST in the past 10 years.

There are also a number of projects that were reported openly, then disappeared, like Lockheed's MINION and other things.

 

[Stargazer2006]

And don't forget the "real" RQ-170, which those who saw it in the Middle East said it was the same, but much bigger...

 

[Matej]

Lockheed Darkstar-like UAV reported in AWST in 2003
Blackstar/Brilliant Buzzard
Northrop NGB demonstrator
Northrop air-launched HALE UAV
any "classified UAV" mentioned in AWST in the past 10 years.

There are also a number of projects that were reported openly, then disappeared, like Lockheed's MINION and other things.

Hmm, thats not the same. At least in my eyes. You know, things like Lockheed Darkstar-like UAV or Northrop NGB demonstrator... simply they make perfect sense. In the meaning that they are realistic, common, they might be the part of the puzzle. The only thing that we dont know is if they really exist/were build or not. And tell some ordinary Joe about the Northrop air-launched HALE UAV. He will never know, what you are talking about. But say him about the F-19 or Aurora...

To explain my idea, why I created this topic: I am updating my web, dealing with the stealth fiction and fake planes (TR-3A Black Manta, Tu-180 Nevidimka, Testors F-19, Ka-58, MiG-37 Ferret...) and I wanted to know, if we have some present day legend like those mentioned. Legend that needs to be explained that it is the rumour/fake/misinterpretation. Some top secret plane, known even in the general public, that in fact doesnt exist or it is the misinterpretation of something real.

BTW I think that the Lockheed Minion is one of the candidates for the secret Lockheed UCAV demonstrator.

 

[quellish]

Hmm, thats not the same. At least in my eyes. You know, things like Lockheed Darkstar-like UAV or Northrop NGB demonstrator... simply they make perfect sense. In the meaning that they are realistic, common, they might be the part of the puzzle. The only thing that we dont know is if they really exist/were build or not. And tell some ordinary Joe about the Northrop air-launched HALE UAV. He will never know, what you are talking about. But say him about the F-19 or Aurora...

To explain my idea, why I created this topic: I am updating my web, dealing with the stealth fiction and fake planes (TR-3A Black Manta, Tu-180 Nevidimka, Testors F-19, Ka-58, MiG-37 Ferret...) and I wanted to know, if we have some present day legend like those mentioned. Legend that needs to be explained that it is the rumour/fake/misinterpretation. Some top secret plane, known even in the general public, that in fact doesnt exist or it is the misinterpretation of something real.

The "legends" of the 90s seemed realistic to people at the time. The Northrop NGB demonstrator may seem to make sense, but peel back the legend a little and it's just that - a legend.
The F-19 was the F-117. Not much mystery there.
The MiG-37 was a model kit. I don't think many people thought it was a model of an actual aircraft, and I believe the box and instructions made it clear that it was hypothetical.
The TR-3 was probably the confluence of several things: Misreporting of the Tier UAVs early in the program, and eyewitness sightings of other triangular aircraft flying on the western test ranges at the time.

Really, the only one that the "average joe" might be aware of would be Aurora.

BTW I think that the Lockheed Minion is one of the candidates for the secret Lockheed UCAV demonstrator.

If you are talking about the UCAV demonstrator that Lockheed was flying in the 90s, that did not appear to be related at all to MINION, but was very much related to FATE.

 

[Stargazer2006]

What we are missing nowadays is for plastic models like the various F-19s or the Ferret to stimulate the imagination. Okay, okay... today we have Aviation Week to come up with wacky aircraft that may not even exist... and we still have a lot of weird planes in plastic form to stimulate the imagination, but they are the so-called "1946" what-if Luftwaffe projects. Nothing that really looks ahead of us...

So can we say that mysterious aircraft and flying urban legends are a thing of the past? Not really... AW&ST's Brilliant Buzzard and Blackstar come to mind, of course, not to mention Aurora, which will remain a mystery for a long time I believe. But there are others too (mostly from the 1990s, but not only):

- the rumored USAF F-24 (mentioned by mistake in a pilot's resume)
- the so-called "F-121 Sentinel", which surprisingly appeared in a Hughes advertisement in the midst of some perfectly "white" and identified aircraft such as the F-22 (see attachment, negative image of the original)
- the Senior Citizen assault transport, which was never disclosed though some pretend it was used operationally
- the stealth blimps (seen by several witnesses)
- the "Belgian" triangles (seen by many witnesses)
- the aircraft that crashed in Boscombe Down (said to resemble a larger F-23)
- the so-called Mackbolin aircraft
- the rumored TR-3A (mentioned by mistake in a 1989 AW&ST article, by some DoD official I believe)
- the various pulse-detonation vehicles and so-called pumpkin seeds that some claim could bounce on their shockwave
- Northrop's Switchblade patent (oddly reminiscent of the F/A-37 movie aircraft)

I'm sure we could find even more instances.

 

[Matej]

If you are talking about the UCAV demonstrator that Lockheed was flying in the 90s, that did not appear to be related at all to MINION, but was very much related to FATE.

No, I am talking about that one that flew sometime in 2005. That was awarded to NG first, but later the contract was transferred to Lockheed (because NG already had X-47 and Boeing X-45). I dont have enough evidence that I can say it as the solid fact, but there is a lot of commonality, such as the proposed using of the high-power microwave weapon and such.

 

[Matej]

- the so-called "F-121 Sentinel", which surprisingly appeared in a Hughes advertisement in the midst of some perfectly "white" and identified aircraft such as the F-22 (see attachment, negative image of the original)

This is a good point. For example Senior Citizen is for me the fact. We have collected here a lot of studies, even the specific designs with the model numbers (mostly from Boeing) for the SOFTA type aircraft (special operations forces transport aircraft). So its for sure that USAF and aircraft manufacturers at least studied this type of aircraft. But F-121 Sentinel, well, that is a good candidate. It has its visualization, it has its own "designation" in the F series (which sounds much cooler than some senior ), so it is much better impulse for someones imagination.

 

[SOC]

The biggest Soviet "secret projects" that I can think of would've been the T-60S (rumored to exist as a prototype) and the MiG 1.42 (rumored to be the never-mentioned second MFI airframe that may have been built).

 

[royabulgaf]

I heard rumors over the last 10 years or so of a Boeing aircraft called I believe, the "787"?

 

[aim9xray]

ouch.

 

[Agent A]

Not sure if these really belong in the 90s list, but I'm still unsure of exactly what these were/are:

YF113G - stealth demonstrator? (and NOT a MiG...)

'Artichoke' - some outgrowth of Senior Trend?

Also, TR-3 is said to have come from mishearing Tier 3, is there anything to substantiate this, or indeed the TR-3 designation itself (apart from a TR-1, U-2, so 'must be' TR-3 lineage)?

 

[bobbymike]

From Inside the Air Force:

What's That?

The House Appropriations Defense subcommittee has inserted more than three-quarters-of-a-billion dollars into a classified Air Force missile procurement account, according to a copy of the panel's review of the Pentagon's fiscal year 2011 budget request obtained by Inside the Air Force. The $770.5 million request was labeled under a "classified programs" budget line. The House panel removed the same amount of money from the service's Evolved Expendable Launch Vehicle program.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Prompt Global Strike missile?

 

[quellish]

Not sure if these really belong in the 90s list, but I'm still unsure of exactly what these were/are:

YF113G - stealth demonstrator? (and NOT a MiG...)

'Artichoke' - some outgrowth of Senior Trend?

Also, TR-3 is said to have come from mishearing Tier 3, is there anything to substantiate this, or indeed the TR-3 designation itself (apart from a TR-1, U-2, so 'must be' TR-3 lineage)?

Artichoke sightings were at a time and place where F-117s were flying without their full paint and RAM, so that is likely what started that rumor.

 

[Agent A]

Not sure if these really belong in the 90s list, but I'm still unsure of exactly what these were/are:

YF113G - stealth demonstrator? (and NOT a MiG...)

'Artichoke' - some outgrowth of Senior Trend?

Also, TR-3 is said to have come from mishearing Tier 3, is there anything to substantiate this, or indeed the TR-3 designation itself (apart from a TR-1, U-2, so 'must be' TR-3 lineage)?

Artichoke sightings were at a time and place where F-117s were flying without their full paint and RAM, so that is likely what started that rumor.

And YF113G Dan?

 

[Stargazer2006]

I have a notion that YF-113G *could* have been the Northrop THAP demonstrator, which some say actually existed as a subscale proof-of-concept for B-2. But of course this is only speculation on my part.

 

[quellish]

I have a notion that YF-113G *could* have been the Northrop THAP demonstrator, which some say actually existed as a subscale proof-of-concept for B-2. But of course this is only speculation on my part.

YF-113G flew in the early 1990s, so that scenario is not likely. THAP may have flown, may have not. THAP was apparently a concept from the USAF Aeronautical Systems Division from the late 70s/early 80s. The technology in THAP was very much the old school of LO - foam absorbers, inlet screens, and the like - very much like the LO treatments applied to Firebee drones, but throughout the structure. Definitely not on the level of the F-117 or TACIT BLUE, ASD was at the time running a LO program in parallel with the DARPA efforts. Those ASD programs produced HAVE KEY/SNEAKY PETE, which probably did fly, and may have been the source of these same rumors and sightings. SNEAKY PETE was an advancement over previous unclassified efforts, but was probably not able to demonstrate the level of signature reduction seen on HAVE BLUE. Because it was run from ASD, however, they thought it was the bee's knees - they did not have full awareness of HAVE BLUE and the dB reduction possible from those emerging VLO techniques. This is evidenced by the problems of the ATA program. ATA was based on the SNEAKY PETE platform, and ATA required access to those very same HAVE BLUE generation technologies to meet its signature goals - access that GD did not get, and is part of the ongoing lawsuit.
Sadly, this is a big reason SNEAKY PETE remains under wraps, likely in Dyson's Dock at DET 3.

 

[Stargazer2006]

Thank you so much quellish for your valuable insight!

 

[mz]

I often think that growing up in the 1950s must have been a marvelous experience, what with all the rapid technological advances and powerful visions of the future. Every month you had magazines such as Popular Science, Popular Mechanics and the likes full to the brim with all sorts of innovations and hundreds of possibilities to improve our daily life in the near future... or so they thought. Today you get a new plane every year or about, and even then it's rarely very different from what already exists.

Oh, but we have things, it's just that complaining is nicer. Sikorsky just built and flew the X2 to a new record. There are a ton of new UAV:s, some of which are quite weird. Normal automobiles have turbochargers, even superchargers and can produce a lot of torque. All kinds of new hybrids and electric things are being tried out. I think this is quite an exciting and changing time, if you just keep your eyes open. Suborbital reusable rockets will start something that has never been done before... routine use of reusable rocket vehicles.

 

[Orionblamblam]

Sikorsky just built and flew the X2 to a new record.

Nice, but not obviously any different than designs from decades ago.

There are a ton of new UAV:s, some of which are quite weird.

UAVs are to aircraft what robotic probes are to space flight: useful, necessary and in the end wholly incapable of inspiring the kiddies. "You get to look at the pictures it sends back, but you'll never get to go."

Normal automobiles have turbochargers, even superchargers and can produce a lot of torque. All kinds of new hybrids and electric things are being tried out.

ZzzzZZZzzzZZzzsnorkzzZZzZZZZ...

Electric cars are a neat idea, but in a hundred years of work, there still isn't a single practical all-electric car. Call me back when there's an electric car that I can actually afford, that I can drive 300 miles on per charge, and can charge up in less than 5 minutes. And that won't need a massively expensive battery replacement every few years.

Bring on the Nucleon!!!

Suborbital reusable rockets will start something that has never been done before... routine use of reusable rocket vehicles.

Hopefully... if they can keep the lawyers and the government (but I repeat myself) from interfering.

 

[Matej]

UAVs are to aircraft what robotic probes are to space flight: useful, necessary and in the end wholly incapable of inspiring the kiddies. "You get to look at the pictures it sends back, but you'll never get to go."

Exactly. This is why in Britain they restored one Avro Vulcan to the flyable condition and now it is shown on the airshows.

Electric cars are a neat idea, but in a hundred years of work, there still isn't a single practical all-electric car.

*

 

[Orionblamblam]

Exactly. This is why in Britain they restored one Avro Vulcan to the flyable condition and now it is shown on the airshows.

I would imagine that the Thrill Factor of watching an airshow composed wholly of UAVs would fall somewhere between that of an RC airplane meet and a regular airshow... but much closer to the former.

*

An interesting example. More than a century ago, a smart, educated person could well imagine that in the competition between gas cars, Deisel cars, steam cars and electric cars, the electrics might well come out on top. But they never did. While gas and Deisel cars have greatly improved their performance, electrics, by and large, remain toys. With the amount of expense and effort required to build a reliable, long-lasting battery that weighs a hundred pounds and can drive a car 300 miles on a charge, thermal depolymerization technology could be perfected and implemented, allowing waste, sewage, garbage, etc. to be turned directly into petroleum. Meaning that "fossil fuels" will be around forever, and po foke won't need to mortgage their homes in order to trade in their now-useless gas-powered beater for a hideously expensive electric.

It'll be a good long while before you can open up the newspaper and find a surprisingly useful *electric* car available for $300.

A deeply philosophical treatice on how the dreams of the past about the future have not come to pass:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1SCu9yiBlo

 

[sublight]

If there is anything to be said about current mystery aircraft its that the government has likely made great improvements in shielding them from public scrutiny. I'm sure there are probably roomfuls of interesting documents on mystery craft from the 70-80-90's that are just itching to get let loose.

The national declassification center has made about 8 million pages of new stuff available to the public in the last six months, but I don't think any of it ended up on SPF.
http://www.archives.gov/declassification/reports/2010-biannual-january1-june30.pdf

This was disheartening "Prioritized certain records collections within the Presidential Libraries for review. Another example of records that have been "fast tracked" are China-related materials within the Kissinger Personal Paper Collection"

 

[sublight]

Gentlemen, THERE ARE ONLY TWO FOUR COMMENTS ON THEIR BLOG ASKING FOR PUBLIC OPINION!!! I BEG of you to go post over there and ask for what you want!!!

http://blogs.archives.gov/ndc/?p=36

Here is the list of categories and prioritization plan, WHICH YOU CAN INFLUENCE.

http://www.archives.gov/declassification/prioritization-plan.pdf

 

[Hammer Birchgrove]

I heard rumors over the last 10 years or so of a Boeing aircraft called I believe, the "787"?

Wikipedia says it will enter service in 2011:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_787

 

[Mr London 24/7]

In a timely development, Steve Douglass is claiming a sighting of 'The Pulser'.

I'm posting it here for interests sake - I don't neccessarily believe it and I'll paste the text here purely as he has recently took his site private claiming DoS attacks (and may do so again):

http://deepbluehorizon.blogspot.com/2010/11/its-baccccck.html

I was on my way home from Wal-Mart this afternoon when I heard a strange thumping noise - rhythmic in nature. At first I thought it might be a flat tire - but then I realized it was coming out of the sky. Then I realized what it was. It came back in a flash - a sound I hadn't heard since 1992. I looked up and saw a familiar sight. My old friend the "Pulser" was back.

It took me another five minutes to race home to get my camera. Unfortunately the high altitude winds had kind of deformed the contrail by then.

It appears the craft (PDWE?) was heading from the southwest to the east/northeast. Maybe (and I'm guessing here) it originated from WSMR. Could it be a new pulse detonation engine aircraft being tested? If anyone else (in the Texas/New Mexico) area witnessed this craft - please feel free to drop me a line.

The original RAW NEF photo files are available on request - complete with EXIF data to credited news media.

I'm currently checking my automated scanner loggings - looking to see if I managed to capture any communications (military or otherwise) associated with this sighting. I'll let you know.

 

[Mr London 24/7]

YF113G - stealth demonstrator? (and NOT a MiG...)

Peter Merlin (the first person to insist that the YF-113G was most likely not a foreign aircraft type) has slightly gone back on this lately perhaps:

http://www.dreamlandresort.com/forum/messages/33553.html

 

[Stargazer2006]

YF113G - stealth demonstrator? (and NOT a MiG...)

Peter Merlin (the first person to insist that the YF-113G was most likely not a foreign aircraft type) has slightly gone back on this lately perhaps:

http://www.dreamlandresort.com/forum/messages/33553.html

Yet the words "from design to first flight" seem to indicate clearly that it couldn't have been a foreign aircraft evaluation...

 

[Mr London 24/7]

YF113G - stealth demonstrator? (and NOT a MiG...)

Peter Merlin (the first person to insist that the YF-113G was most likely not a foreign aircraft type) has slightly gone back on this lately perhaps:

http://www.dreamlandresort.com/forum/messages/33553.html

Yet the words "from design to first flight" seem to indicate clearly that it couldn't have been a foreign aircraft evaluation...

Indeed but I assume that Peter may have learned something new which has caused him to (unprompted) make a cautionary point on it: kudos to him nonetheless.

 

[aliensporebomb]

There's a few others I've collected and heard of over the years.

I'm sure I've forgotten a few.

"Lockheed Test 2334" - several reports over the internet about a radio transmission about a classified, manned, high speed, high altitude craft performing a test flight and later vectoring back to the test ranges in Nevada with ATC making sly references to their return speed being slower than the test flight.

Steve Douglass' sighting of a manned fastflyer using radio callsign "Astrid" at the conclusion of a "Red Flag" exercise at WSMR flying faster than two other spy flyers, first a U2 then an SR-71.

Meinrad Eberle (and two other swiss nationals) sighting of a manned fastmover craft (at six in the morning on a weekend no less) at Groom Lake in 1999 along with radio transmissions.

"The Gaspipe Transmissions" - Curtis Peebles "Dark Eagles" postulated this was security guards fooling around with the radio but security uses different frequencies for transmission than air traffic control and most security guards I know don't know or use ATC terms. They use different terminology.;

The story of the Learjet pilot who found himself behind a wingless manned version of the "pumpkinseed" craft then transmitted about it to ATC and was later interrogated for hours about it by the military. That story always rang a little strange since you figure an advanced aircraft would know if a Lear would be tailing him. The story claimed the helmeted pilot turned in surprise, saw the Lear then fired the afterburners and was gone from the area afterwards. I still have the hand drawn picture of the purported craft.

The two stealthy VS/TOL prototypes I saw in outstate Minnesota in 1989 with some confirmation later from Jim Goodall of them being tested in the "Midwest and Michigan" and an airline pilot of my acquaintance discussed the area they were flying in as being used as a transit corridor for aircraft moving from one area of the country to another.

The story of the deep sea fisherman off San Francisco who found one of the "large black triangles" hovering low above his fishing vessel and shot at it with a shotgun whereupon a hatch opened with a man yelling "stop shooting at us you idiot!" followed by a military helicopter flying low over his fishing vessel taking photographs of the vessel and the shooter. Not a good idea to shoot at unacknowledged aircraft methinks. Expensive mistake but the fisherman apparently believed it was "independence day".

Any more that I've forgotten?

Oh yeah. The fast aircraft that flew late at night doing racetrack turns in Antelope Valley. I think everyone has seen the video footage of that craft doing a racetrack turn in a night vision scope with a much slower aircraft with strobes on in the center of the view screen and some guy filming it yells "holy cow!". I know it's up on youtube somewhere.

The reports of the stealth blimp at walking speed late at night in california.

Reports of very loud aircraft in the night skies in the late 80s in California as well as another aircraft that took off at Edwards late at night with a "screaming roaring takeoff" with the sound reminiscent of heavy lift rockets. That one always intrigued me.

The black triangular aircraft spotted at dusk that allegedly displayed a recessed cockpit and NO STEP insignia stamped below the canopy when viewed thru binoculars.

The Chris Gibson sighting.

 

[Stargazer2006]

Your last sentence is incomplete... Thanks for this recap. Many people (including some on this forum) are busy trying to tell us that we who believe all or part of these reports to be real are just loonies... But let's assume that they probably have their own secret agenda, or else they are simply die-hard fundamentalists (well, I have learned from experience that even an atheist can be a fundamentalist, and this forum certainly has a few).

So anyway, I'm posting this just to say that in case these should try and ridicule your writings, there are others who do not deem them stupid, inconsistent, naive or whatever else they may label them. And don't forget:

1°) if Obama is ready to sell the plans of the Spirit to the Chinese...
2°) if the USAF reformed the whole Blackbird fleet...
3°) if the USAF reformed the whole Nighthawk fleet...
4°) if the US Navy reformed the whole Tomcat fleet...

... then we'd better hope that there are a few secret types out there, otherwise the U.S. (and the world) are in trouble!!!

 

[aliensporebomb]

Incomplete sentence fixed!

It's possible some of these are partially true or completely true or totally made up (the fisherman shooting at the triangle seems far fetched - if you were a pilot of something like that and someone is shooting at you wouldn't you fly away rather than open your hatch to yell "stop shooting at us" and exposing yourself to possible gunshot wounds?).

Radio transmissions are harder to falsify although the context can vary.

Most of these were either taken from AvLeak or sites similar to Dan's "Black Dawn" or thereabouts. But, if I hadn't spotted something back in the 80s myself I likely wouldn't be as interested in this topic as I am.

 

[Sundog]

The Boeing Model 119, that has a pilot and WSO and manually folding wings. It was the aircraft that they were hiring a crew chief/maintainer for that we saw the posting of last year.

ASTRA (Advanced Strike and Tactical Recon Aircraft). I think the high speed aircraft reportedly seen flying around was this, not Aurora(B-2). Aviation Week also had reported sightings of it (a high speed aircraft) flying out of, IIRC, Yokota AB, Japan. They said it appeared to be more sleek than the Blackbird, whatever the hell that means. I think it means the engines were integrated in the fuselage, but that's not really a surprise. Maybe it's the Boeing Model 119 and has the manually folding wings to fit inside the C-5C with the chipmunk cheeks?

 

[Orionblamblam]

But let's assume that they probably have their own secret agenda,

Can "fact" be a "secret agenda?"

... then we'd better hope that there are a few secret types out there, otherwise the U.S. (and the world) are in trouble!!!

What leads you to suspect that the US is *not* in trouble? Why is "uh-oh" less likely than Deus Ex Machina?

 

[quellish]

C-5C with the chipmunk cheeks

Add that one to the list.
http://www.thespacereview.com/article/576/2


Oh! And I have a good one. That they're bringing the F-117s back into operational service, and/or modifying them into UCAVs.

 

[royabulgaf]

The problem with all the aircraft urban legends is why? Why do we use the problematic space shuttle or buy Soyuz tickets when we have all this neato stuff? If we have all those long-range high speed aircraft, why is NASA so thrilled when they get a surfboard sized UAV to fly mach 6 for two minutes? Why are aerospace companies losing competitions when they presumably have stuff up their sleeves that could blow the doors off the competition? Why have these same companies gone to their corporate graves when unveiling a tenth of these wonders would have allowed them to dominate the industry for decades to come? Riddle me this, Batman.

 

[Sundog]

C-5C with the chipmunk cheeks

Add that one to the list.
http://www.thespacereview.com/article/576/2


Oh! And I have a good one. That they're bringing the F-117s back into operational service, and/or modifying them into UCAVs.

They, the F-117s, always were UCAV's, you didn't think men could actually fly the Wobbly Goblin, did you?