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Current and future Ilmavoimat developments..

TsrJoe

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mz

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There was quite a lot of grief and the people and press making noise about the NH90 delays, particularly since the Mils were aging fast and the NH contract had a weird upper limit for penalty payments. Seems Finnish (well, like all) military (again, like all big projects) procurement always has problems. The third copter was just delivered.

In my view there is no realistic political possibility for any attack helicopters at the moment.

Finnish military equipment discussion has some interesting large things shaping it.
On one hand, there's some old Soviet made hardware in use, and one could get more of that, or somewhat more modern but still old stuff cheaply from Russia (Mi-17 instead of NH90 for example). But on the other hand, can quantity compensate for quality? Will it get just more expensive in the long term?
What about NATO? Or general international missions and compatibility there.
Many feel that the Finnish defence forces are looking too much in that glamorous international mission direction and not thinking enough of the main issue which is ensuring a credible defense of Finland.
There's also the big issue of conscription. If it's stopped, then it makes sense to move to small elite troops moving around very fast on very expensive equipment. That would be a huge transformation.
 

mz

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The defence forces have asked for attack helicopters for about ten years already (the previous prime minister Lipponen commented them as "there are some sexy helicopters in there too" when discussing the military budget) but the military has been chastised for even daring to ask. There just isn't enough money for them.
There isn't even much money for flying the Hornets or keeping the navy sailing. It just doesn't look realistic for a while.
 

mz

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I think (I don't know where my copy is and it's older anyway) that booklet depicts the threats to infantry and how to deal with them. Sotilaan käsikirja = soldier's handbook.
So the graphics are just notional. Probably it would have been too politically controversial to use a Hind instead of an Apache there attacking. Own equipment is used where such exists to avoid such things too.
 

Meteorit

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Some more comments: the A330MRTT was just a proposal and has not been taken up: Finnair didn't like the idea at all. Also I'm not sure about SLAM-ER: the Air Force has requested AGM-158 JASSM from USA, but so far the sale has not been approved. Some suggest this is due to political reasons from US side, though it could also be related to JASSM's recent 'issues'.
And like mz said: there's no way the Army could get attack (or 'escort' ;)) helicopters in the foreseeable future. The pics are supposed to show 'enemy' equipment.
 

mz

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I think this kind of politics discussion is acceptable and relevant, as it is directly connected to procurement and development policies.
Yes, the military is so hot for NATO and international missions, which is very expensive and it's a bit dubious how it helps defending the homeland, but I'm no expert on such matters...

As for Sweden, unfortunately, it has been downsizing its military very heavily lately. Also I don't think they would want to have any deep co-operation, or could be counted on for much official credible backing in case of something major happening since Finland acts as a nice buffer against Russia in any case and they wouldn't lose much even if Finland was wiped off the face of the Earth. Better for them to just hold their hands off the whole affair. That's how it's been for the last two hundred years, Swedes haven't had a war since Sweden lost Finland to Russia, before that the two empires fought constantly. That's just history and geography.
 

Meteorit

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TsrJoe said:
'the baseline is the Raytheon Joint Stand Off Weapon or more, and more or less we are looking at weapons like SLAM-ER, Taurus and JASSM. There is the problem of what weapons you can have because of the release politics. For example, JASSM is not so easy, we know that very well, Australia is the only country that has got it, but we are looking forward. In contrast Finland has secured release approvals for the Boeing SLAM-ER'

Based on several Finnish sources I still insist that JASSM is the Air Force's preferred option, and the request will be renewed at some point.
 

Meteorit

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TsrJoe said:
wishful thinking methinks ... (some interesting snippets tho)

I think the only 'wishful thinking' is the officer's futuristic UI. All depicted equipment has either been purchased or should be on procurement plans.
 
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