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Convair Super Hustler, Fish and Kingfish

styx

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I woul like to know something about the kinfish proposal for a strategic recon aircraft (in the competition won by the lockheed a-12) and about the super hustler design.
Unfortunately the only information i foud are in Russian (quite strange for united states secret projects)

http://www.testpilot.ru/usa/convair/b/58/super/super.htm
 

Skybolt

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The simple truth is that the Russian site copied and translated the extensive info found in Jay Miler's "B-58 Hustler"second edition book from a score of years ago... Best action is go and buy that book (one of the best ever in Cold War aviation history, BTW). It is an easy find. on Amazon, for one.
 

SOC

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For more info on the Kingfish, check out the Aerofax title on the Blackbird family.

http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/planes/q0011c.shtml
http://www.blackbirds.net/sr71/oxcart/successortou2.html
http://home.att.net/~jbaugher2/b58_13.html

Also, do an FOIA search on the CIA FOIA site for OXCART. There's a CIA-published A-12 history in there that has some information on Kingfish as well.
 

lark

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Besides the Aerofax book with its excellent chapter 2 about the Kingfish and Co
there's also the revised edition of Warbird vol 10 : Lockheed Blackbirds
by Tony R.Landis and Dennis R.Jenkins (pages 6 to 9)
 

hesham

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Dear lark,

I have a book about B-58, but it is not explained that,the Convair Model-16
was the Super Hustler or not.
 

Archibald

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Good website (in french) with pics of the Fish and kingfish.
http://jpcolliat.free.fr/f12/f12-14.htm
 

Antonio

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Lockheed's SR-71 "Blackbird" Family by James Goodall and Jay Miller. Aerofax. Chapter Two. Pages 11 to 14.
3 view drawings from GD Fish and GD Kingfish
 

lark

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Hesham ,
Not a single trail of Convair designations found.Only codenames
and names.(Super Hustler/Fish/Kingfish)
 

dickie

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does The Blackbird Family go into any depth about the engine placement and intake/exhaust performance of the KINGFISH? reading about the (then) complex nature of the a-12's inlet spikes and controlling airflow into the j-58 seems to put the design aspects of the convair design into question.

this is underlined by kelly johnson's apparent comments on the matter; he stated that the designers of the rival firm gave little thought to inlet and afterburner performance at all, opting instead to focus on the RCS of the design. convair claimed that the performance of the plane matched the lockheed design in speed and very nearly in altitude, but is that even possible given the nature of the blackbird's engine characteristics in comparison?
 
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Wingknut

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Hello,
Hope this isn't too far off-topic but I'm puzzled by the caption on one image at: http://www.testpilot.ru/usa/convair/b/58/super/super.htm.
The image apparently shows a model Super Hustler equipped for ZELL, (zero length launch). I'd thought ZELL was for vertical (or near-vertical) ground launches but that the Super Hustler was purely for parasite launching. So, was there a proposed ground-launched Super Hustler or have I got ZELL all wrong?
Many thanks,
'Wingknut'
 

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Orionblamblam

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Wingknut said:
the Super Hustler was purely for parasite launching.

No, it was possible to launch it from fixed ground emplacements (maybe also mobile ground platforms, but I'm just speculating). In effect it was a manned, multi-stage cruise missile. Carrying under a B-58 would allow deeper penetration into enemy territory since the B-58 could get it closer.
 

hesham

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My dear Orion,

we can put them here.
 

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flateric

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No, Hesham, we will not put stuff from Jay Miller/Midland Counties books HERE.
 

fossil

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What's the name/designation of the "small" parasite craft at the rear, under the B-52 Hustler? Also any other links to that design or 3-views and details.

www.testpilot.ru/usa/convair/b/58/super/super.htm
 

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Orionblamblam

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fossil said:
What's the name/designation of the "small" parasite craft at the rear, under the B-52 Hustler? Also any other links to that design or 3-views and details.

www.testpilot.ru/usa/convair/b/58/super/super.htm

As the website says, that's the "Super Hustler." Type "Super Hustler" in the search engine above to find more threads on it.
 

OM

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Orionblamblam said:
fossil said:
What's the name/designation of the "small" parasite craft at the rear, under the B-52 Hustler? Also any other links to that design or 3-views and details.

www.testpilot.ru/usa/convair/b/58/super/super.htm

As the website says, that's the "Super Hustler." Type "Super Hustler" in the search engine above to find more threads on it.

...Wasn't this one of the "Kingfish" proposal designs that was batted about?
 

fossil

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This is a 3-view of the parasite I'm looking for a designation. Would like to build a scale model with a wingspan about 48 inches x 96 inches long
 

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fossil

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Fun Fake

Had some fun comming up with this. Think it will fly?
 

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Matej

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fossil: It will be usefull to add somewhere to your drawing a note, that it is the imagination or a few weeks later we will find at Abovetopsecret or somewhere else the thread that the new supersecret black hypersonic aircraft was revealed :D Nice idea indeed.
 

Orionblamblam

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fossil said:
This is a 3-view of the parasite I'm looking for a designation.

That's not actually the parasite... that's the *booster.* The parasite was the manned vehicle ahead of/below the booster.

Also: the nosecone of the booster, the part ahead of the line, was actually the bomb.
 

Orionblamblam

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Re: Fun Fake

fossil said:
Had some fun comming up with this. Think it will fly?

Not on its own. The expendable booster stage was ramjet powered, with no means of getting to ramjet speed. It would need to be carried by another aircraft, or given rocket boosters.
 

fossil

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Upgraded engines

A little more work brought it up to date.
 

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flateric

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please no more fanart in this thread
 

OM

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Orionblamblam said:
OM said:
...Wasn't this one of the "Kingfish" proposal designs that was batted about?

No, but it was an ancestor design.

...That's why I thought I'd seen it before. Came across it one time during my OXCART research back in the late 90's, albeit in a "napkin sketch" form. A "Fish" proposal, then?
 

Orionblamblam

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The Convair Super Hustler, two iterations of the Convair "Fish," and the SDR-17 "Super Hustler" tactical bomber.

The SH was a recon/strategic bomber meant to be carried aloft by an unmodified B-58; the earlier "Fish" was a pure recon plane meant to be carried aloft by an unmodified B-58; the second "Fish" was also a recon bird, meant to be carried aloft by a stretched B-58; the SDR-17 "Super Hustler" was a conventional tactical bomber in the mold of the F-111, but equipped with only a single bomb.

This is for the RoBo article in the V2N4 issue of APR. These play only a small role in the RoBo story, so get only a few pages of treatment; a future article may cover the Super Hustle and/or Fish in greater depth.
 

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Michel Van

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This is for the RoBo article in the V2N4 issue of APR.
it about ZELL version of the Super Hustler ?

intressthing page (with Picture) on Super Hustler
http://www.testpilot.ru/usa/convair/b/58/super/super.htm
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,4450.0.html
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,1129.0.html

please not confuse Convair Fish with Convair Kingfish,
that aircraft was for CIA
 

Skybolt

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eh, eh, eh, guys, and wait to see which kind of insignia a SuperHustler was expected to sport....
 

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I've read that the Fish was supposed to have two J-85 turbojets that retract from the aircraft to support the approach and go-around operations. Does any one have a drawing or picture that indicates the location of the retractable engines?

There are panel lines for what might be retractable engine bays behind the cockpit area, but I'm not sure.
 

shockonlip

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Skybolt said:
eh, eh, eh, guys, and wait to see which kind of insignia a SuperHustler was expected to sport....

I have a copy of Scott's excellent V2N4, and I don't recall an Super Hustler "insignia".

Or is this somewhere else, and you're toying with us!
 

shockonlip

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I am not trying to come across as upset.

I wanted to add a smiley, but hit the button too soon!

Regards,

Larry
 

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Dynoman said:
I've read that the Fish was supposed to have two J-85 turbojets that retract from the aircraft to support the approach and go-around operations. Does any one have a drawing or picture that indicates the location of the retractable engines?

There are panel lines for what might be retractable engine bays behind the cockpit area, but I'm not sure.

Scott has some excellent stuff on Super Hustler.

I'll let him respond.

If he doesn't I can take a whack at it.
 

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Skybolt

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Nice renderings, Bagera, although had Convair won the competition surely the deignation wouldn't be of the A-something type.... That derived by the Archangel designation that Lockheed used internally.
 

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flateric

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Marquardt MA-24XEA
This variable geometry ramjet, configured for internal mounting with a vehicle-provided inlet system, was designed for extended cruise at Mach 4 and 90,000 ft. The engine accelerated the vehicle from a Mach 2, 40,000 ft. takeover condition. The ramjet was 33.5-in. in diameter, 89-in. long and weighed 585 lbs. The engine’s hydraulic-pneumatic fuel system and air turbine driven fuel pump were installed in the ramjet center-body.
The variable convergent-divergent exit nozzle, providing variations from 0.12 to 0.65%, was designed with a nonprotuberant aft-end geometry for a low radar signature during cruise flight. The operational development activity for the MA24-XEA was suspended when the launch aircraft program was abruptly terminated.
 

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