Convair 'Project HAZEL' Reconnaissance aircraft

Dynoman

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2009
Messages
1,023
Reaction score
470
In the late 1950's the CIA was interested in a boost-glide or ramjet powered manned reconnaissance aircraft and funded a classified study by Convair for the concept definition of such an aircraft. Under the title of Project HAZEL various configurations and types of vehicles (i.e. atmospheric and exo-atmospheric vehicles were considered). This document describes the studies conducted of air breathing jet and ramjet powered aircraft up to 100,000 ft.

https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP89B00709R000400800005-2.pdf
 

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
28,553
Reaction score
6,299
Brilliant and amazing find my dear Dynoman,

this Convair ZP-266 is new,and we can put it here.
 

Attachments

  • 1.png
    1.png
    66.2 KB · Views: 792
  • 8.png
    8.png
    54.9 KB · Views: 139
  • 7.png
    7.png
    47.3 KB · Views: 141
  • 6.png
    6.png
    68.9 KB · Views: 150
  • 5.png
    5.png
    50.9 KB · Views: 726
  • 4.png
    4.png
    41.4 KB · Views: 741
  • 3.png
    3.png
    48.8 KB · Views: 755
  • 2.png
    2.png
    53.8 KB · Views: 767

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
28,553
Reaction score
6,299
And;
 

Attachments

  • 15.png
    15.png
    88.1 KB · Views: 168
  • 14.png
    14.png
    50.3 KB · Views: 160
  • 13.png
    13.png
    100.9 KB · Views: 169
  • 12.png
    12.png
    61.5 KB · Views: 184
  • 11.png
    11.png
    84.6 KB · Views: 177
  • 10.png
    10.png
    29.9 KB · Views: 163
  • 9.png
    9.png
    34.1 KB · Views: 152

flateric

ACCESS: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2006
Messages
9,305
Reaction score
1,886
Dynoman, thank you for sharing
 

archipeppe

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
Oct 18, 2007
Messages
1,953
Reaction score
1,078
Absolutely amazing Dynoman!

The engine nacelles resemble to me the Skylon's ones.....
 

robunos

You're Mad, You Are.....
Senior Member
Joined
May 1, 2007
Messages
2,095
Reaction score
642
Most interesting...
The obvious question is, where does this fit in with Fish/Kingfish/Super Hustler...

And what's with that MC-10/MC-30 configuration, that ramjet is HUGE!...and made from fibreglass... :eek:

One more image from the report, I think would be useful to post here...

cheers,
Robin.
 

Attachments

  • Project Hazel - comparison.jpg
    Project Hazel - comparison.jpg
    67 KB · Views: 119

Dynoman

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2009
Messages
1,023
Reaction score
470
In this study for Project Hazel the designations were:

Convair MC-10, MC-11, MC-14, MC-15, MC-17, MC-19, MC-20, MC-22, MC-24, PC-20, PC-22, and PC-24.

Their individual configurations are found in this aerodynamics study.

https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP89B00709R000400820001-4.pdf
 

Dynoman

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2009
Messages
1,023
Reaction score
470
A design study for Project HAZEL.

Interestingly a submarine launched version!

https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP89B00709R000400830001-3.pdf
 

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
28,553
Reaction score
6,299
PaulMM (Overscan) said:
ZP-266 is the report designation not an aircraft model number.

Yes my dear Paul,I know that,
 

Attachments

  • 8.png
    8.png
    42.3 KB · Views: 98
  • 7.png
    7.png
    83.9 KB · Views: 95
  • 6.png
    6.png
    89.4 KB · Views: 84
  • 5.png
    5.png
    88.5 KB · Views: 81
  • 4.png
    4.png
    81 KB · Views: 87
  • 3.png
    3.png
    100.2 KB · Views: 88
  • 2.png
    2.png
    109.8 KB · Views: 94
  • 1.png
    1.png
    91.7 KB · Views: 105

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
28,553
Reaction score
6,299
And;
 

Attachments

  • 16.png
    16.png
    109.3 KB · Views: 71
  • 15.png
    15.png
    105.5 KB · Views: 66
  • 14.png
    14.png
    34.4 KB · Views: 101
  • 13.png
    13.png
    50.4 KB · Views: 881
  • 12.png
    12.png
    34.2 KB · Views: 71
  • 11.png
    11.png
    32.6 KB · Views: 68
  • 10.png
    10.png
    34.4 KB · Views: 860
  • 9.png
    9.png
    47.3 KB · Views: 66

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
28,553
Reaction score
6,299
And;
 

Attachments

  • 24.png
    24.png
    131.2 KB · Views: 91
  • 23.png
    23.png
    152.2 KB · Views: 67
  • 22.png
    22.png
    104.9 KB · Views: 57
  • 21.png
    21.png
    87 KB · Views: 59
  • 20.png
    20.png
    159 KB · Views: 63
  • 19.png
    19.png
    82.5 KB · Views: 68
  • 18.png
    18.png
    106.5 KB · Views: 69
  • 17.png
    17.png
    106.8 KB · Views: 72

Michel Van

ACCESS: Above Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
5,470
Reaction score
2,674
fantastic find Dynoman

Looking true papers i notice, is Project Hazel a competitive design to Project Oxcart ? (aka A-12, the build Mach 3 spy plane)
 

Dynoman

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2009
Messages
1,023
Reaction score
470
Great question! Both occurred about the same time. Lockheed began development of U-2 successor in late 1957, about the same time as Convair's Project HAZEL. Funding for a follow-on vehicle that could replace the U-2 was critical as awareness to its vulnerabilities grew by 1956 (before the U-2 became operational in 1956 estimates for the U-2's life expectancy was only a year and a half before Soviet AD made overflight very difficult).
 

newsdeskdan

ACCESS: Top Secret
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2014
Messages
1,169
Reaction score
973
Hm. Reading some of the other files, it appears that the U-2, developed under the title Project Aquatone, then later Project Chalice, was to be replaced by Convair's Project Gusto - which was itself then succeeded by Oxcart. The first Gusto contract was placed in Semptember 1958 - a month before the earliest reports on Project Hazel.
Gusto was the Super Hustler, which of course bore no resemblance to the B-58... so where does Project Hazel fit in?

NB: Reading ZP-253, it says "This report has been prepared in compliance with the requirements of BuAer contract No. 58-812 (SS-100) and Amendment 1, issued 14 August 1958. In May 1958 Convair was asked to perform a study of a high altitude Manned reconnaissance vehicle according to the following requirements:"

Two of those requirements were 'sea-based' and 'Engines for cruise: Marquardt low 'q' ramjet or Hughes slow burning liquid rocket (low IR source type).

So it's just a design study of no particular consequence, seems to me. Also interesting that one of the Project Hazel reports was prepared by Hans H Amtmann - the WW2 Blohm & Voss designer who worked on designs such as the BV 238. I guess his sea-based aircraft BV experience meant he fitted the bill when it came to choosing a designer for the sea-based Project Hazel.
 

PlanesPictures

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
May 13, 2006
Messages
1,022
Reaction score
812
Do you understand this part of MC-10 design?
 

Attachments

  • MC-10 design.jpg
    MC-10 design.jpg
    202.8 KB · Views: 494

CiTrus90

Credibility is down! Kill ratio is up!
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2015
Messages
476
Reaction score
949
PlanesPictures said:
Do you understand this part of MC-10 design?

Maybe a keel shaped in order to better channel the airflow into the inlet cone?

BTW really an amazing find Dynoman, thanks for sharing!
 

Mark Nankivil

ACCESS: Top Secret
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2007
Messages
1,713
Reaction score
935
Good Day All -

The separation you note Plane Pictures - possibly to allow boundary flow to stay out of the inlet? Thinking of the Navy connection, I wonder if they were looking at having a stake in strategic reconnaissance, much like putting the P2V Neptune and later AJ Savage and A3D Skywarrior on deck for nuclear delivery to counter the USAF.

In looking at the various designs, they all seem quite small to me for the operational ranges being called out - ramjets aren't exactly fuel effieicnt. Anyone else thinking the same thing?

Enjoy the Day! Mark
 

Orionblamblam

ACCESS: Above Top Secret
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2006
Messages
8,978
Reaction score
3,509
Website
www.aerospaceprojectsreview.com
Mark Nankivil said:
ramjets aren't exactly fuel effieicnt.

Actually, they are, so long as you fly them at almost exactly the design speed & altitude. Remember, the D-21 was a relatively tiny thing, capable of Mach 3.3 at something like 95,000 feet, with a range of 3,000 miles. Look at the D-21... it look like it barely has any volume for fuel, yet it has more range than an unrefueled SR-71.

Ramjets very quickly suck when you fly them slower than their design optimum. Getting them up to speed & altitude under their own power is a great way to blow through their fuel load, but if you can get them there via booster rockets or carrier aircraft, you're golden.
 

GeorgeA

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2006
Messages
705
Reaction score
77
A possible derivative was Project SGAPEX or CHAMPION, a boost-glide or "boost-cruise" vehicle studied by Convair San Diego in 1958. Two contracting memos on the CREST site refer to it.

UPDATE: CHAMPION was to use a Hughes liquid rocket and/or a Marquardt ramjet (the ramjet program was administered by the Navy). Both contracts are referred to in the CHAMPION records. Funding in 1958 was around $60,000, and in 1959 was connected or shared with approx. $225,000 for GUSTO (aka IDIOM) out of Convair Ft. Worth.
 

Attachments

  • CIA-RDP89B00709R000400800022-3.pdf
    54.7 KB · Views: 72
  • CIA-RDP89B00709R000400800024-1.pdf
    73.2 KB · Views: 55

Sherman Tank

I don't want to change my personal text
Joined
Oct 15, 2016
Messages
208
Reaction score
130
It's fascinating to see proposals from the brief period when LH and boronated ZIP fuels were still thought to be viable for aircraft propulsion.
 

newsdeskdan

ACCESS: Top Secret
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2014
Messages
1,169
Reaction score
973
George Allegrezza said:
A possible derivative was Project SGAPEX or CHAMPION, a boost-glide or "boost-cruise" vehicle studied by Convair San Diego in 1958. Two contracting memos on the CREST site refer to it.

UPDATE: CHAMPION was to use a Hughes liquid rocket and/or a Marquardt ramjet (the ramjet program was administered by the Navy). Both contracts are referred to in the CHAMPION records. Funding in 1958 was around $60,000, and in 1959 was connected or shared with approx. $225,000 for GUSTO (aka IDIOM) out of Convair Ft. Worth.

Wow - I imagine Convair would barely have got out of bed for $60,000. SGAPEX (CHAMPION) can't have been particularly important/well-developed. Those CIA records are a goldmine on GUSTO, however.
 

GeorgeA

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2006
Messages
705
Reaction score
77
I need to go back and read Paul Suhler's book -- he had a great narrative of how all of these developmental threads came together.
 

martinbayer

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
Jan 6, 2009
Messages
865
Reaction score
409
Sherman Tank said:
It's fascinating to see proposals from the brief period when LH and boronated ZIP fuels were still thought to be viable for aircraft propulsion.

Hydrogen still is - look at Boeing's Phantom Eye.

Martin
 

PlanesPictures

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
May 13, 2006
Messages
1,022
Reaction score
812
what is the part before cockpit? It is over profile of wing
 

Attachments

  • MC-10 what is that part.jpg
    MC-10 what is that part.jpg
    208.3 KB · Views: 675

Grey Havoc

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2009
Messages
16,999
Reaction score
6,636
PlanesPictures said:
what is the part before cockpit? It is over profile of wing

I think it's just a line showing the angles of vision for the pilot, though I could be wrong.
 

flateric

ACCESS: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2006
Messages
9,305
Reaction score
1,886
PlanesPictures said:
what is the part before cockpit? It is over profile of wing
 

Attachments

  • Pages from CIA-RDP89B00709R000400820001-4--04.png
    Pages from CIA-RDP89B00709R000400820001-4--04.png
    203.1 KB · Views: 612
  • Pages from CIA-RDP89B00709R000400820001-4--04-.png
    Pages from CIA-RDP89B00709R000400820001-4--04-.png
    178.3 KB · Views: 572

Dynoman

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2009
Messages
1,023
Reaction score
470
Not exactly sure but this may be the reason for the single engine variant having that ridge in the structure.
 

Attachments

  • Sec 2.jpg
    Sec 2.jpg
    240.1 KB · Views: 498
  • Sec 1.jpg
    Sec 1.jpg
    230.7 KB · Views: 513

PlanesPictures

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
May 13, 2006
Messages
1,022
Reaction score
812
little crude solution. For now
 

Attachments

  • MC-10 solution1.jpg
    MC-10 solution1.jpg
    66.6 KB · Views: 76
  • MC-10 solution2.jpg
    MC-10 solution2.jpg
    79.8 KB · Views: 104

Dynoman

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2009
Messages
1,023
Reaction score
470
Mentioned earlier in the thread Project Champion was another interesting concept of the time.

CHAMPION: NAVY INFLATABLE DESIGNS (Chp 8 From Rainbow to Gusto)

"On 14 August 1958, three weeks after his previous trip, (Clarence Kelly Johnson) Johnson was back at the program office to get the details of the Navy proposal. Under a Navy project named CHAMPION, Goodyear was proposing a reconnaissance vehicle having inflatable wings that could be rolled up while the vehicle was transported on an aircraft carrier and then inflated for launch (Interview with Sherre Lovick, Northridge, CA, 4 Feb. 2006). It was intended to be ramjet powered and to cruise at 125,000 to 150,000 ft. A balloon would lift it to altitude. Johnson made a quick calculation and decided that the balloon would have to be over a mile in diameter. He is said to have remarked, “Gentlemen, that’s a lot of hot air.” Goodyear’s propeller-driven Inflatoplane had already been flying for two years, but at a maximum speed of 72 miles per hour and at a maximum altitude of 10,000 ft. The Land Panel probably recognized that Goodyear was in a situation similar to Randolph Rae and Garrett, a builder of a small, simple aircraft proposing to build a large, complex aircraft to operate in a flight regime in which the company had no experience. Having an experienced company like Lockheed perform a sanity check on the concept was essential.
 

PlanesPictures

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
May 13, 2006
Messages
1,022
Reaction score
812
For this project I found in my archives Boeing's original drawing of B-52B model. But from net I read "Leading Edge Sweep: 35°"- red line on drawing. Had B-52B wing with other leading edge sweep as newest B-52s versions (blue line on drawing) or this drawing is total fake?
 

Attachments

  • B-52B drawing.jpg
    B-52B drawing.jpg
    467.8 KB · Views: 141

newsdeskdan

ACCESS: Top Secret
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2014
Messages
1,169
Reaction score
973
Dynoman said:
Mentioned earlier in the thread Project Champion was another interesting concept of the time.

CHAMPION: NAVY INFLATABLE DESIGNS (Chp 8 From Rainbow to Gusto)

"On 14 August 1958, three weeks after his previous trip, (Clarence Kelly Johnson) Johnson was back at the program office to get the details of the Navy proposal. Under a Navy project named CHAMPION, Goodyear was proposing a reconnaissance vehicle having inflatable wings that could be rolled up while the vehicle was transported on an aircraft carrier and then inflated for launch (Interview with Sherre Lovick, Northridge, CA, 4 Feb. 2006). It was intended to be ramjet powered and to cruise at 125,000 to 150,000 ft. A balloon would lift it to altitude. Johnson made a quick calculation and decided that the balloon would have to be over a mile in diameter. He is said to have remarked, “Gentlemen, that’s a lot of hot air.” Goodyear’s propeller-driven Inflatoplane had already been flying for two years, but at a maximum speed of 72 miles per hour and at a maximum altitude of 10,000 ft. The Land Panel probably recognized that Goodyear was in a situation similar to Randolph Rae and Garrett, a builder of a small, simple aircraft proposing to build a large, complex aircraft to operate in a flight regime in which the company had no experience. Having an experienced company like Lockheed perform a sanity check on the concept was essential.

In Johnson's own words... https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP90B00170R000100050008-1.pdf
 

Similar threads

Top