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Chinese Xi'an Y-20 Transport Aircraft

Deino

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As expected, but that greenish-grey is IMO even stranger than that "ugly" Russian brownish-purple-grey on the Su-34 "Hellducks" ! :-\

Deino
 

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Deino

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Does anyone have any images of the sometimes reported An-70-600/An-77 four turbofan engined projects and proposals ? .... reportedly a model of that type was shown during the Moscow Air Show in 2003.

Thanks in advance,
Deino
 

overscan (PaulMM)

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An -70-600

http://www.airforceworld.com/others/An-70_Transporter_Ukraine.htm

In October 2008, the current Zhuhai Air Show, Antonov exhibited an AN-70 military transport aircraft and other large scale models. Pursuant to introduce responsible for the booth staff and Antonov, the exhibition of the AN-70 aircraft model is that the Chinese military will have to cooperate with Ukraine, the predecessor of the AN-70-600 transport aircraft. Based on the Antonov personnel explained that China and Antonov intend large military transport aircraft An -70-600 type of cooperation is a way to improve performance of a new 70 transport aircraft, he pointed out that the Chinese military for this cooperation The development of new AN70-600 aircraft even demanding requirements. China hopes that the new AN70-600 transport aircraft can carry 48-50 tons maximum. Sustained flight carrying 50 tons of not less than about 3200 km. The 40-ton cargo can be equipped with large transport aircraft in Ukraine and Russia Universal last flight of about 4,500 km. At the same time, the Chinese military AN70-600 military transport aircraft can be equipped with at least three Chinese-made infantry fighting vehicles, equipped with 120-150 paratroopers. For the above conditions, the Antonov said, these conditions should not exceed AN70 own maximum design load limits. Requirements can be said that China has been close to the limits of the the AN70 existing aircraft design. However, he believes: Antonov have the ability to help the Chinese military to complete this project. When asked about the plan will not because there may have been U.S. sanctions or threats lead to miscarriage? He explained that although the plan is based on military cooperation, in the name of AN70-600 transport aircraft cooperation plan so far has not been any bound constraints.

Belinsky: China is developing to replace the Il-76MD aircraft, our cooperation with China in this regard is "effectively sustained in. We have China submitted a transport aircraft design technology consulting manual says the Mingan Antonov can provide help in detail, including the body design, we also propose to use Ukraine's engine production. Reporter: Can you be more specific about it?    Belinsky: We proposed two designs: a scheme based on the basic structure of the An-70, by replacing the new engine design aerodynamic layout to achieve the highest standards of large aircraft, the risk factor in this program, because China did not participate in the development of the An-70. Another program modeled on the benefits of doing so in the years of the Chinese Air Force IL-76 transport aircraft and Ukraine are familiar with both IL-76, you can guarantee that in a relatively short period of time "to introduce new. However, IL-76 is the end of the Soviet 1960s product, whether it is worthwhile development is still a problem.   Reporter: for China to develop a new generation of large military transport aircraft, the Antonov Design Bureau hopes to play a useful role?   Belinsky: world to which aviation enterprises like us to have such a wealth of experience, we will be the most sincere and reliable friend. Of course, we hope that the Chinese directly select the An-70, it is able to meet the needs of the army and the civil aviation market in China. If you need to, China can achieve the localization of the An-70 production, which is more reasonable in cost accounting.   More importantly, the Ukraine at a disadvantage in the export of large aircraft, unlike the United States, Europe and Russia as worrying about the technical loss, even if we take some sort of "technology-for-market strategy, but also quite a return.
 

overscan (PaulMM)

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Several Russian reports on Y-20 say its based on An-170 (to what extent An-170 and An-70-600 are similar, I don't know).

1987-1993: An-170 (proposed in competition to Il-106). Based on An-70 with stretched fuselage, new wings (not supercritical) and engines derived from D-27 (?), sacrificing short field capability for greater capacity. 230 tons MTOW, payload 60 tons. An-171 MPA version, An-177 export. )

Other sources say 45-50 tons payload.

Not seen a picture.


An-77 - An-70 with 4 x CFM56 engines? From an old Janes:



An-77: Military STOL transport for export customers; as An-70-100 but with cockpit for two or three crew. Runway length of 1,900m (6,235ft) required with 35,000kg (77,161 lb) payload for 2,051 n mile (3,800km; 2,361 mile) range.


An-70T: Commercial transport, generally as An-70 but no requirement for STOL. Two or three crew. To carry 35,000kg (77,161lb) payload 2,051 n miles (3,800km; 2,361 miles) from 1,900m (6,235ft) runway, or 20,000kg (44,092 lb) for 2,915 n miles (5,400km; 3,555 miles) from 1,300m (4,265ft) runway.

An-70T-100: Development of An-70T with two D-27 propfans, two crew and revised landing gear, to carry 30,000kg (66,138 lb) payload 540 n miles (1,000km; 621 miles) from 2,500m (8,205ft) runway, or 10,000kg (22,046 lb) for 1,187 n miles (2,200km; 1,367 miles) from 1,300m (4,265ft) runway.


An-70T-200: Powered by two Kuznetsov NK-93 turbofans.

An-70T-300: With two CFM56-5C4 turbofans.

An-70T-400: With four CFM56-5C4 turbofans.
 

overscan (PaulMM)

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Short mention of An-170 in Piotr Butowski's Lotnictwo Wojskowe Rosji Tom III
 

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Deino

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Thanks a lot Paul, but I'm quite surprised that so far no image has been shown especially with a model being shown during the Moscow Air Show in 2003.

Also - and to admit my point of interest - is when was the standard tail configuration changed to the new C-17/A.400M look a like tail ?

Deino
 

flateric

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Apophenia said:
Ah yes, I wonder how ex-Boeing Long Beach engineer Dongfan Chung is doing these days. ;D
BTW,
Agents also found documents on the C-17 Globemaster troop transport used by the U.S. Air Force and militaries in Britain, Australia and Canada — but the government later dropped charges related to those finds.
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/35300466/ns/us_news-security/t/chinese-born-engineer-gets-years-spying/#.UV-N-JN7LSw
 

Deino

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Is this one real ???? ... at least I hope so.
 

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chuck4

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If real, shouldn't zinc chromate color of the new fan case be seen a little bit in the reflected light coming off of the other engine nacelle? Why is the new fan case optically somewhat distorted and therefore seem not quite round, whereas the other engine seem optically undistorted and therefore round? Shouldn't same optical condition pervail ifor both engines?
 

totoro

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There are engines of similar class which don't have perfectly circular shroud. Like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pratt_%26_Whitney_PW2000 on C-17.
That being said, this could very well be just the said engine photoshopped onto an il-76. Image is too small and of too crappy quality to tell. Too early to get excited over anything yet, in my opinion.
 

Apophenia

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flateric said:
Agents also found documents on the C-17 Globemaster troop transport used by the U.S. Air Force and militaries in Britain, Australia and Canada — but the government later dropped charges related to those finds.

Thanks for the update flateric. I suppose there may be a host of reasons why C-17 related charges against Dongfan Chung might have been dropped. So, the question remains, did Xian get C-17 details from Dongfan Chung or is the tail design simple 'convergent evolution'?
 

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chuck4 said:
If real, shouldn't zinc chromate color of the new fan case be seen a little bit in the reflected light coming off of the other engine nacelle?
It does, though. The right side of the thinner nacelle clearly has a yellow tint on it.
 

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While the aircraft is almost certainly an Il-76LL (of which China acquired one a few years ago!), the engine is definitely neither a PS-90A nor a SaM-146. Both have a common mixed exhaust nozzle for both bypass and core jets, whereas this engine looks to have conventional separate nozzles. What puzzles me somewhat is the apparently rather modest size, although that is admittedly a bit hard to judge from such a small picture - it looks about the size of a CFM-56 to me, which seems too small if they have any hope of achieving the claimed 66 ton payload. Not that a Chinese engine mirroring the CFM (given the origins of the WS-10 core) would be surprising, but if so it probably isn't the intended power plant for the Y-20 (then again, what else would it be for?!).
 

chuck4

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Trident said:
While the aircraft is almost certainly an Il-76LL (of which China acquired one a few years ago!), the engine is definitely neither a PS-90A nor a SaM-146. Both have a common mixed exhaust nozzle for both bypass and core jets, whereas this engine looks to have conventional separate nozzles. What puzzles me somewhat is the apparently rather modest size, although that is admittedly a bit hard to judge from such a small picture - it looks about the size of a CFM-56 to me, which seems too small if they have any hope of achieving the claimed 66 ton payload. Not that a Chinese engine mirroring the CFM (given the origins of the WS-10 core) would be surprising, but if so it probably isn't the intended power plant for the Y-20 (then again, what else would it be for?!).

Is there any civil turbofan projects in progress in china for their b737/A320 class regional liner?
 

Trident

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Yes, but I believe that project only got under way in earnest quite recently - so recently that we can safely disregard the possibility.
 

Deino

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Yes, that's the CJ-1000A .... to admit as far as I understand this type of engine, the original CJ-1000 was the civil version of the WS-20. However in mind of the latest noise and pollution restrictions it was however decided to seperate it from the WS-20 and by now it seems the CJ-1000A is a new engine developed in cooperation with MTU.
 

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kaiserbill

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I see in that attachment Deino that they intend thrust to be up to 44 000lb.

An engine in the 35 000 to 44 000lb thrust range seems tailor-made for the Y-20.

If this is the route they're following, I suspect that any airframes made before 2020 will probably still feature the D-30, with airframes after that equipped with the new turbofan.
 

Deino

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Even if not mentioned literally as an Y-20 concept ... aren't there some similarities !??? ;)
 

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Deino

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Seems as if there is something going on .... ;)
 

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Deino

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Slowly a few more are appearing ... but so far no flight !

At least the nose has been painted.
 

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kaiserbill

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The last picture shows nicely the wing devices and engine reverse buckets for short field landing, neatly putting to bed the strange standpoint ventured earlier that it wasn't designed for this.
 

Deino

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Yeppp ... but in the mind of some things simply can't be when they don't fit in an existing opinion.
 

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Deino

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Second flight today !!!!
 

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Deino

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... and a few more images !

(at the SDF they say it was actually even the third flight) ???
 

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Deino

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There were indeed two more flights ...

2. one on April 20, 3:15 pm
3. one on on April 21, 12:32 pm
 

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Deino

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chuck4 said:
HS it flown with wheels and flaps retracted yet?

Actually I don't know ...
 

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Deino

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No. 20002 had its maiden flight today !

+ video


http://p.you.video.sina.com.cn/swf/quotePlayer20131203_V4_4_42_15.swf?autoPlay=1&actlogActive=1&as=1&vid=121970772&uid=1&tokenURL=http%3A%2F%2Fyou.video.sina.com.cn%2Fapi%2FsinawebApi%2Foutplayrefer.php%2Fvid%3D121970772_1_aU3kTSI6XDTK%2Bl1lHz2stqkM7KQNt6nknynt71%2BiJgxfUwqLYorfO4kK4SvXCchC9mtP%2Fs.swf&tHostName=
 

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Deino

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chuck4 said:
HS it flown with wheels and flaps retracted yet?

I think Yes, there was flight on 5.12 ... the problem is in contrast to CAC, XAC is a bit off so there are only few images available (with most likely not all flights logged) and in most cases the aircrfat only with the gears already or stil down.

By the way no. 20001 has received a prominent '781' CFTE number.

Deino
 

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Deino

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Engine testbed for the WS-20 spotted !
 

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overscan (PaulMM)

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Supposedly a closeup - assuming its not a shot of an Russian Il-76 testbed for PS-90A-76 or something.
 

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latenlazy

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PaulMM (Overscan) said:
Supposedly a closeup - assuming its not a shot of an Russian Il-76 testbed for PS-90A-76 or something.
Older pic, but the new one confirms the authenticity of this one.
 

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xian_Y-20 found an article on wikipedia about the Xian !
 

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overscan (PaulMM)

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flateric said:
incredible!

Indeed. And you know what? This "wikipedia" has articles on all kinds of subjects! people, films, history, even aviation.

Its almost like some kind of encyclopedia....
 

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