Challenger variants

From 2018:

Black Night unveiled | BAE Systems | International

We have unveiled Black Night – a working example of our vision for the proposed upgrade of the British Army’s Challenger 2 Main Battle Tank.
www.baesystems.com www.baesystems.com

Interesting that they chose the name Black Night, presumably because 'Black Knight' was already taken by BAE's Armed Robotic Combat Vehicle (originally the Armed Robotic Demonstrator UGCV program).
 
www.telegraph.co.uk

German company in frame for £750m British Army tank contract

Rheinmetall is set to win multi-million pound contract to upgrade 150 of the UK's ageing Challenger II tanks
www.telegraph.co.uk www.telegraph.co.uk

Why do I get the sinking feeling that this, along with the rather ill-advised plan to cut back the already small tank fleet in the process, is going to backfire horribly?
 
Well, seeing as the UK is now set to orient on the Asian region, there is going to be a change in funding so the navy and air force will get more and the army bugger all in effect. Not much opportunity to deploy Challenger to that region with any expectation of being deployed in time or relevant really. Anyone in the market for a shopping vehicle? Guaranteed to defeat all known parking restrictions.......
 
Grey Havoc said:
www.telegraph.co.uk

German company in frame for £750m British Army tank contract

Rheinmetall is set to win multi-million pound contract to upgrade 150 of the UK's ageing Challenger II tanks
www.telegraph.co.uk www.telegraph.co.uk

Why do I get the sinking feeling that this, along with the rather ill-advised plan to cut back the already small tank fleet in the process, is going to backfire horribly?
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Unless a new type of light fighting vehicles based off of the Boxer is procured. I have seen images of the variants being offered to the British Army, and one of them does mount a 105mm gun. I shall try to find it, but it is probably buried deep in my collection.

Wasn't Rheinmetall the company that fitted a 130mm to a Challenger 2 last year? Is that the upgrade? One can only hope so, but I do doubt it.
 
www.iiss.org

Challenger 3: Third time lucky for British armoured-vehicle programmes?

An £800 million (US$1.3 billion) contract to upgrade the British Army’s Challenger main battle tank was recently awarded to Rheinmetall BAE Systems Land, with the aim of producing the ‘most lethal tank in Europe’. But will the Challenger 3 programme fare better than some of the United Kingdom’s...
www.iiss.org www.iiss.org
 
Thought this would be the right place to ask. Has anyone got any photos or videos of the engine bay/pack change of the challenger 2 Oman, challenger 2e or either Trojan Titan? more specifically photos that show the internal changes made for the cooling fans.
 
Grey Havoc said:
One of the interesting things to emerge from last year's parliamentary defence committee hearings was the revelation that a Challenger 2 had been tested with a 150 mm gun (apparently complete with autoloader) back in 2003, not long before the Iraq War. Despite successful trials it was not adopted for service, primarily due to the fact that a brand new turret would have had to be procured for the Challenger 2 fleet in order to make it practical. Given the idiotically tight defence budget of the day, not to mention that the 'tanks are obsolete' crowd were at the height of their influence, that was a non-starter unfortunately.
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Is it possible to access this hearing, considering that it is public? Is it possible to post it in that case?
 
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You would think so, but I don't think they are available either on the BBC website or that of the Defence Select Committee. There are rather sketchy minutes of the Summer hearings during 2020 that can be downloaded on the latter site, but they are not very illuminating to say the least. And there is absolutely nothing on the Winter hearings.
 
"Hopefully they will retain sell off the surplus vehicles to their 'chums' for cheap, then buy them back for future upgrade as required, and split the profit, when policy changes."

FTFY ! /sarc

cheers,
Robin.
 
^ Sad to say but your version is by far the most likely, or they will just giver them away to leverage storage costs.
 
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Is there ever going to be a new Western MBT? Or do these vehicles just get upgraded forever?
 
The UK is currently an observer on the new European MBT project. If it wishes, it can take part in it. Another option may be working with the Americans, though both of these options are unlikely to have Britain take much responsibility within them, mainly due to politics. Then again, nobody knows what the future holds....
 
I think an awful lot will be determined by the different nations actually deciding what they want from the land forces and tanks in particular. How anyone can even start to think of designs until this is sorted fails me. Anything done without a comprehensive examination of forces they are willing to fund fails, they should first decide the mission they want to meet and THEN work out what vehicle designs are required. Numerous times in the past, billions have been spent on different projects only to see them cancelled. This CANNOT continue, full stop, period.
 
Cancel it, it's already obsolete . . . it doesn't have rectangular headlights built into the front plate, or that extra flat sided thingy round the turret end of the gun . . . /sarc

cheers,
Robin.
 
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Would anyone be able to send me scans of the Challenger Marksman brochure?

I'm building a model of one and would like to read a bit more about it. More (better quality) photos would be helpful too.
 
Jason Dykstra (Wyvern) said:
I do believe there is a limit to how large tank shells will get, as the larger a tank shell, the smaller number of rounds carried. A 150mm gun seems a bit much, in my opinion, for a normal main battle tank, at least. I am of the opinion that 130mm will be the largest we'll see for current generation MBTs, as these can be retrofitted to existing tanks without the need to make massive changes to the turret, and layout. Next-Generation MBTs may feature 140mm cannons (these have been tested, in the UK for sure). Again, this is based wholly on opinion.
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Rhinemetall designed a 140mm that would swap into the same space as the 120mm back in the 1980s.

Now they're pushing a 130mm with a cartridge case that is ~twice the length of a 120mm, since the 120mm sabot rounds are now length limited to ~900mm (the penetrators are hitting the primer vent in the case stub, can't go any longer). The 130mm could support sabot lengths of 1500mm or so. The 130mm with a 900mm long sabot has massively more energy than the 120mm NATO standard, at least 2x.


Bruno Anthony said:
Is there ever going to be a new Western MBT? Or do these vehicles just get upgraded forever?
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It's sounding like the US Army is finally done with the Abrams after the A3 comes out. No more Space, Weight, and Power (SWAP) available for upgrades.
 
Scott Kenny said:
It's sounding like the US Army is finally done with the Abrams after the A3 comes out. No more Space, Weight, and Power (SWAP) available for upgrades.
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Like the Navy's Arleigh Burke class? Brilliant in its time and to be venerated by future historians but nearing the limits of its potential in a changing world now.
 
Rhinocrates said:
Like the Navy's Arleigh Burke class? Brilliant in its time and to be venerated by future historians but nearing the limits of its potential in a changing world now.
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Basically.

I'm honestly surprised the Abrams lasted as long as it did.
 
Well, the end of the Cold War saw a great many projects suddenly seem less worthwhile. What's the point in developing a new top-of-the-line anything when your main competitor just fell in on themselves, and all you have left to deal with is middle-eastern countries using last-generation technology and steel-cored APFSDS.

It's a shame too, because there were some really interesting developments happening in the 80s and 90s that weren't needed all of a sudden.
 

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