British Missile What-Ifs

[Hood]

While I work up a post to explore some British what-ifs in regards to a restructured British missile industry, I'm posting this collection of missiles I have drawn up.

The scenarios offered here are 'plug and play' and so not all options would be taken at the same time but rather this is a coverage of my AU ideas. Lots of these missiles are real or are real projects but some of them are inventions of my own.
These are drawn in what is referred to as Soldierbucket scale (1m = 66.667px) by the Shipbucket community.

3in RP based Missiles

Artemis - real project, a 3in RP with a simple radar-wave reflection homing head spinning counter-rotation to the missile body with a basic drag brake in the nosecone to bring the missile within the beam of the host night-fighter's AI radar
Ben - real project, two 3in RP mounted together with wings and nose cone with puffer control jets, the wing-tips contain photoelectric cells to keep the missile within a searchlight beam, suitable for land and ship-based launch
Ben Mk.2 - real proposal, the photoelectric cells are replaced by radar-receivers to keep the missile within the radar beam

Firestreak/ Red Top

Firestreak - real missile
Red Top Mk.1 - real missile
Blue Dolphin - based on real Blue Dolphin and Radar Red Top projects, CW radar guidance compatible with a J-band AI.23 and the older AI.18 radar, shares the liquid-fuel motor of the Red Top Mk.2
Red Top Mk.2 - real project, a new encapsulated liquid-fuel motor for increased range and reversion to the faceted nosecone over an improved IR-seeker

Blue Steel

Blue Steel Mk.1 - real missile
Blue Steel Mk.2 - real proposal, the W.114 with the Stentor replaced by four Bristol BRJ.824 ramjets and two extended Gosling boosters for Mach 3 cruising speed
Blue Steel Mk.3 - real Blue Steel Low Level proposal, the Stentor replaced by a Viper turbojet for longer-range at low-altitude

Sea Cat

Sea Cat - real missile
Tigercat - real missile
Hellcat - real project, a helicopter-launched Sea Cat for an anti-boat role
Wildcat - AU missile, a Sea Cat with a HEAT warhead, for launch by Tigercat batteries, Ferret scout cars and Army Air Corps helicopters
Sea Cat 2 - real project, a supersonic development designed to use as much Sea Cat equipment as possible

Bloodhound

QF.169 Bloodhound II - real missile
RO.166 Bloodhound III - real project, historically cancelled in 1960 and feeding into the QF.169. A command-guided variant (guided with 2x Yellow River ground radars and the Argus computer) with a 5-10kT Indigo Hammer fission warhead with a limited ABM capability. In this AU both are developed roughly side-by-side, due to lack of fission material numbers of Bloodhound would be low.

Rapier

ET.316 Rapier - real missile
Rapier FSC - real missile
Sabre - real concept, an air-to-ground missile using the laser seeker from the Copperhead artillery round combined with the Trigat ATGW dual-warhead, lost out to Brimstone historically
Sabre AAMS (Anti-Armour Missile System) - AU weapon, a land-based Sabre fired from standard Rapier launchers to give them a dual SAM/ATGW role

Sea Dart

Sea Dart - real missile
Sea Dart Mk.2 - real project, revised electronics to save weight and space for additional fuel, improved guidance and ECCM, Thrust Vector Control added to an extended Chow booster - which in my AU would give VLS capability (as seen on my Type 43 above)
Sea Dart SSM - real concept, I've tweaked this with an active-radar seeker, would be carried alongside Sea Dart rounds in the magazine
Guardian - real project - a land-based Sea Dart to replace Bloodhound during the 1970s

Confessor (Sea Wolf)

GW.25 Confessor - is the real GW.26 Sea Wolf VLS, Confessor was the original project name
GW.27 Active Confessor - is the real GW.27 Active Sea Wolf project, an active-radar seeker added
Wolverine - real concept, a real land-based project with an ABM capability, in my AU this is based on the GW.27 Active Confessor, would be a weapon for the 1980s, between a later Bloodhound replacement and replaced by Sky Sabre in the 2020s (see below).

Blue Water

Blue Water - real project, inertial guidance and a 10kT 'Tony' fission warhead, truck-launched
Blue Water ALCM - real proposal, an air-launched version with detachable tailcone to reduce drag and an upgraded inertial system

WE.177/ Cub

WE.177B - real bomb
Cub A - real project, the One Club A was a BAC proposal for a Deterrence gap filler following the cancellation of Skybolt, it was a WE.177 bomb with a Raven rocket motor, unguided, the Air Staff quite liked the idea for TSR.2
Cub D - real concept, a concrete-filled dummy round to saturate Soviet air defences

Martel

AS.37 Martel - real missile, radar-homing for SEAD
AJ.168 Martel - real missile, TV-guided
P3T Sea Eagle - real missile
P5T Sea Eagle - real missile, 2x Wagtail rocket boosters for helicopter-launch and cannister-launch from Fast Patrol Boats
P4T Cruise Eagle - real project, cruise missile (Cruise Eagle is my AU name)
P6T Golden Eagle - real project, imaging IR seeker and datalink guidance, cruise missile (P6T is my AU designation)
Ship Martel - real project, Martel with an active radar seeker and sea-skimming capability, boost rocket for cannister-launch
Underwater-to-Surface Guided Weapon (USGW) - real project, a submarine-launched anti-ship missile

Sea Skua

Sea Skua - real missile
Sea Skuarm - AU missile, a passive radar homing missile using Sky ARM technology to provide RN Lynx helicopters with a SEAD capability, service entry in 1990 in time for Desert Storm

Sky Flash

XJ.521 Sky Flash - real missile
Active Sky Flash/ Rb.73 - real project, Thomson-CSF active-radar seeker and revised fins to reduce drag, developed in cooperation with Sweden
ARM Flash - AU missile, a HARM analogue for the RAF to augment the unpopular AS.37 Martel, similar seekers and proximity fuzing retained, in service by 1980
Sea Flash - AU missile but based on real concept, a Sky Flash with folding fins for NATO Sea Sparrow System

Taildog

Taildog/SRAAM - real project, TVC and IR-guidance, fired from a tube-cannister, this is the original Hawker Siddeley Dynamics SRAAM concept
Tailsting/SRATM (Short-Range Anti-Tank Missile) - AU weapon, a Taildog fitted with a laser seeker for anti-armour use
Tailarm/SRARM - real project, a short-range ARM to give fighter-bombers self-defence capability against SAM sites (Tailarm is my AU name)
Typhoon - real project, was a SRAAM/ASRAAM with the Trigat ATGW dual-warhead, historically lost out to Brimstone
SHIELD - real project, a naval SAM version of the basic missile

Meteor

Meteor - real missile
JNAAM/ Meteor 2 - real project, developed in cooperation with Japan with the AESA seeker from the Mitsubishi Electric AAM-4B, some airframe changes for easier internal carriage aboard the Lockheed Martin F-35
Meteor SEAD - AU missile based on real concepts, a radar-seeking ARM to replace ALARM
Meteor LAM - AU missile based on a real concept, a strike/SEAD missile with a multimode radar seeker
Sea Meteor - AU missile, a Meteor married to an ASTER-30 booster to provide a long-range AAM with ABM capability (as seen on my Type 45 above)

Brimstone

Brimstone - real missile
Brimstone 2 - the real dual-mode Brimstone
Sea Spear - real missile, a shore/boat-launched anti-boat missile
Spear 3 - real missile missile under development, an extended-range weapon with a turbofan and flip-out wings
Spear EW - real project, SEAD version with passive radar emission homing
Glide Spear - real proposal, an engineless Spear relying on gliding for range

CAMM

CAMM-A/ASRAAM 2 - AU weapon, originally CAMM included an AAM but instead CAMM technology was used to upgrade ASRAAM. In this AU with Taildog forming ASRAAM, CAMM with an IR-seeker is a new AAM for the 2010s.
CAMM/Sea Ceptor - real missile
CAMM-ER/ Sea Ceptor ER - real missile (Sea Ceptor ER is my AU name)
CAMM/Land Ceptor/ Sky Sabre - real missile
CAMM-ER/ Land Ceptor ER - real missile (Land Ceptor ER is my AU name)
CAMM-S/ Sea Spear - AU weapon, a CAMM with a TV/IR-guidance for land strike
CAMM-SER/ Sea Spear ER - AU weapon, a CAMM-ER with a TV/IR-guidance for land strike (as seen on my AU Type 45 and later frigates above)
CAMM-S/ Sabot - AU weapon, a land-based Sea Spear for precision strike
CAMM-SER/ Sabot ER - AU weapon, a land-based Sea Spear ER for precision strike

 

[pathology_doc]

Red Top Mk.2 - real project, a new encapsulated liquid-fuel motor for increased range and reversion to the faceted nosecone over an improved IR-seeker

What is the justification for the reversion?
(This leads into the question - what was the justification for the dome over the original cone?)

 

[uk 75]

Great work Hood..The Shipbucket community has provided me with much joy.
Only one question from the missiles you have shown.. Was there ever a nuclear tipped Martel proposed?

 

[Dilandu]

Artemis - real project, a 3in RP with a simple radar-wave reflection homing head spinning counter-rotation to the missile body with a basic drag brake in the nosecone to bring the missile within the beam of the host night-fighter's AI radar

Hm? I was under impression that "Artemis" homed on the radar echo from target (i.e. she was semi-active, not beam rider)?

 

[Trident]

Sea Meteor - AU missile, a Meteor married to an ASTER-30 booster to provide a long-range AAM with ABM capability (as seen on my Type 45 above)

Wouldn't ABM capability favour rocket propulsion? Short-range point-defence obviates the need for air-breathing propulsion, long range typically means high altitude (up to and including exo-atmospheric) which isn't ideal either. It might be beneficial if for some reason you cannot locate the interceptors near the target to be defended (which is a scenario where interception far from the launcher but also at low altitude is plausible), but that seems a very special case.

 

[zen]

Lovely work!

 

[NOMISYRRUC]

Sea Dart

Sea Dart - real missile
Sea Dart Mk.2 - real project, revised electronics to save weight and space for additional fuel, improved guidance and ECCM, Thrust Vector Control added to an extended Chow booster - which in my AU would give VLS capability (as seen on my Type 43 above)
Sea Dart SSM - real concept, I've tweaked this with an active-radar seeker, would be carried alongside Sea Dart rounds in the magazine
Guardian - real project - a land-based Sea Dart to replace Bloodhound during the 1970s

Is it true that Guardian was also known as Land Dart? Was it intended to replace the Army's Thunderbird SAM too? I've read that it was one of the victims of the Mason Defence Review of 1974-75. Is that true?

 

[uk 75]

Initially the system seems to have been proposed as a fixed Bloodhound site replacement.

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/sea-wolf-and-sea-dart-unbuilt-derivatives-and-cancelled-applications.218/post-299742

An illustration is posted above showing the naval twin armed launcher mounted on a blockhouse magazine.
The boxed launcher variant appears much later and again was offered to replace Bloodhound.
Thunderbird was replaced by the smaller and more mobile Rapier in towed and then tracked versions. Warpac aircraft had moved from Il and Yak bombers to Su7/20/22 and Mig27.

 

[Hood]

Red Top Mk.2 - real project, a new encapsulated liquid-fuel motor for increased range and reversion to the faceted nosecone over an improved IR-seeker

What is the justification for the reversion?
(This leads into the question - what was the justification for the dome over the original cone?)

I have seen a drawing of Red Top Mk.2 with the faceted cone, I do seem to remember reading somewhere that the hemispherical cone presented some drag issues when manoeuvring, I suppose it was a trade off between improving the acquisition arc of the seeker and missile performance.

Only one question from the missiles you have shown.. Was there ever a nuclear tipped Martel proposed?

Yes there was Megaton Martel - but ended up quite different from a standard Martel and I've never seen any images of it. Presumably only went as far as a doodle.

Hm? I was under impression that "Artemis" homed on the radar echo from target (i.e. she was semi-active, not beam rider)?

You are correct, my clumsy wording makes it sound like a beam-rider, though I suppose echo-riding is a form of beam-riding? I have doubts about the accuracy of this weapon but hey its an early project and reasonably cool to think of Mossies and Beaus tricked out with it.

Wouldn't ABM capability favour rocket propulsion? Short-range point-defence obviates the need for air-breathing propulsion, long range typically means high altitude (up to and including exo-atmospheric) which isn't ideal either. It might be beneficial if for some reason you cannot locate the interceptors near the target to be defended (which is a scenario where interception far from the launcher but also at low altitude is plausible), but that seems a very special case.

I've seen mentions of ABM capability from these kind of land-launched Meteor proposals, presumably more against tactical than strategic systems.
Either way, I was happy that an ASTER booster dovetails nicely and the whole thing fits in a Sylver A-50 cell...

Is it true that Guardian was also known as Land Dart? Was it intended to replace the Army's Thunderbird SAM too? I've read that it was one of the victims of the Mason Defence Review of 1974-75. Is that true?

Yes Guardian was another name for Land Dart. It was proposed by BAC as a Thunderbird replacement. I don't think that Mason killed it, it probably died some time before that and I'm sceptical that it was ever seriously considered by the Army.

 

[uk 75]

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/sea-wolf-and-sea-dart-unbuilt-derivatives-and-cancelled-applications.218/post-355997

A comprehensive account of UK SAGW options inclusing Seadart proposals

 

[uk 75]

A descrption of Megaton Martel can be found here;

STRIKING POWER

The range of weapons that would have been carried by the TSR2...

www.key.aero

 

[zen]

Additional thoughts....

If SRAAM/Taildog enters service as AAM and SAM.
Then a variant of ASRAAM/CAMM to fit extent launchers is a logical move. CAMM-SR (short range)

If Sea Dart mkII is funded. It implies the revision of shipside systems to exploit that capability.
An air launched Anti-ship Sea Dart is also quite likely.

If the funds have been committed to GWS.27 in full, then repacking into a larger missile to fulfil FAMS/PAAMS is highly likely.

 

[timmymagic]

Great work as ever! I've got a couple of suggestions below for your consideration (feel free to ignore of course):

For Typhoon I would change the image to a clear ASRAAM derivative (green painted, yellow band, with the additional 'spine' added). No real Taildog/SRAAM lineage.

For Spear I'd be tempted to add a couple more variants, given the talk of spiral developments by MBDA and MoD. One would be a 'SpearSimple' or 'Value Engineered Spear'. Essentially the same as SpearGlide but without the MMW seeker. GPS/INS only, with the potential of a SAL addition (like Laser SDB1). Hard target penetration capability, essentially a SDB1 equivalent to 'round' the product line out with a cheaper munition than the quite expensive Spear or SpearGlide. The only other sensible Spear variant I could think of beyond that would be a 'SpearRecon' essentially an attritable recon asset, a Spear-EW with its extended range of c300 miles with the EW payload removed replaced with an E/O payload.

Have you considered adding the MBDA BGOAA proposal for a Brimstone/CAMM mashup to the CAMM section? 2 missiles were displayed, one DMB head and the other E/O IIR. It's a larger calibre than CAMM however. There was also a Green painted Meteor displayed as well, but they didn't talk about what that entailed (SAM, ARM or high speed strike).

Also have you seen the MBDA concepts for a Dual Mode AAM, looks a little like a 'squashed' ASRAAM with larger calibre. There were also 2 reduced size 'twin pack' missiles for internal carriage as well.

 

[timmymagic]

I've seen mentions of ABM capability from these kind of land-launched Meteor proposals, presumably more against tactical than strategic systems.

MBDA were talking about a Meteor derivative specifically as a counter to HGV. Then there is a of course the Twister work, which I presume leans heavily in some aspects on Meteor.

 

[Dilandu]

You are correct, my clumsy wording makes it sound like a beam-rider, though I suppose echo-riding is a form of beam-riding? I have doubts about the accuracy of this weapon but hey its an early project and reasonably cool to think of Mossies and Beaus tricked out with it

No problem, I just was confused a bit, and thought that "maybe some new sources emerged about Artemis?"

 

[Hood]

Then a variant of ASRAAM/CAMM to fit extent launchers is a logical move. CAMM-SR (short range)

Good point, I hadn't considered that option, though there is no denying that a CAMM-A would have range benefits over a CAMM-SR, though come to think of it, a helicopter-mounted version might be feasible too.

An air launched Anti-ship Sea Dart is also quite likely.

Yes a British Vulkan seems possible in this scenario with the proper warhead.

If the funds have been committed to GWS.27 in full, then repacking into a larger missile to fulfil FAMS/PAAMS is highly likely.

True, I hadn't considered a FAMS/PAAMS missile. Of course its equally possible you could put the GWS.27 seeker into Sea Dart 2 too.
I have since thought about a Sea Dart 3 concept; a larger ramjet missile with SAM and SSM versions with Mach 4+ performance and VLS for the 2000s.

For Typhoon I would change the image to a clear ASRAAM derivative (green painted, yellow band, with the additional 'spine' added). No real Taildog/SRAAM lineage.

Yes my Typhoon is not quite the real ASRAAM based Typhoon given the AU background going with Taildog. Of course I could make a version based on the AU CAMM-A....

One would be a 'SpearSimple' or 'Value Engineered Spear'. Essentially the same as SpearGlide but without the MMW seeker. GPS/INS only, with the potential of a SAL addition (like Laser SDB1). Hard target penetration capability, essentially a SDB1 equivalent to 'round' the product line out with a cheaper munition than the quite expensive Spear or SpearGlide. The only other sensible Spear variant I could think of beyond that would be a 'SpearRecon' essentially an attritable recon asset, a Spear-EW with its extended range of c300 miles with the EW payload removed replaced with an E/O payload.

If you want cheap you might as well lob a SDB at the target, but its an interesting idea given the additional stand-off range.
SpearRecon sounds like approaching UAV territory, but sounds a neat idea.

Have you considered adding the MBDA BGOAA proposal for a Brimstone/CAMM mashup to the CAMM section? 2 missiles were displayed, one DMB head and the other E/O IIR. It's a larger calibre than CAMM however. There was also a Green painted Meteor displayed as well, but they didn't talk about what that entailed (SAM, ARM or high speed strike).

My CAMM Sabot is more or less a CAMM with a Brimstone front end, though as you say the narrower body makes packaging difficult, presumably MBDA are finding a way to do that given their proposals. I suppose a fatter CAMM would be based on the ER but keep the wider mid-section diameter all the way to the nosecone. Guess that would allow a larger warhead too.
My Meteor LAM is based on that 'Green Meteor' of role unknown, I'm assuming a strike weapon of some kind - a SAM makes less sense when you already have CAMM/CAMM-ER.

 

[pathology_doc]

I have seen a drawing of Red Top Mk.2 with the faceted cone

I have, on a couple of occasions, seen a photograph of a missile with Red Top-style wings and a Firestreak nose. I wondered if it wasn't some in-between test round on the way from the one to the other. Every picture I've ever seen of service Lightnings, Javelins and Sea Vixens actually armed with either missile does not show this mixed profile.

 

[Elan Vital]

What about Swingfire and other ATGMs?

 

[zen]

Good point, I hadn't considered that option, though there is no denying that a CAMM-A would have range benefits over a CAMM-SR, though come to think of it, a helicopter-mounted version might be feasible too.

Something backwards compatible is of use and if it has similar range to SRAAM/Taildog then what favours it is the datalink and imaging seeker.

True, I hadn't considered a FAMS/PAAMS missile. Of course its equally possible you could put the GWS.27 seeker into Sea Dart 2 too.

I was thinking more SAM.72 solution XPX.430 a scaled up Sea Wolf like missile.

I have since thought about a Sea Dart 3 concept; a larger ramjet missile with SAM and SSM versions with Mach 4+ performance and VLS for the 2000s.

It's more about a different shape of ramjet and higher accelerating booster. Wider at the back, sharper at the front. Fast Dart.

 

[Hood]

What about Swingfire and other ATGMs?

I might some more later, I was more playing around with AU ideas and Swingfire only really has Heliswing and that was a bit of a flop...

I was thinking more SAM.72 solution XPX.430 a scaled up Sea Wolf like missile.

Yes that would be a possibility - I guess given likely resources its a case of doing PAAMS at home and sacrificing CAMM though.
Yes an Active Sea Dart wouldn't be a PAAMS contender as such, I was toying with a combo with Active Sea Wolf.

It's more about a different shape of ramjet and higher accelerating booster. Wider at the back, sharper at the front. Fast Dart.

Yep, would be an entirely new missile. Hell an airbreathing long-range missile might even get the USN hyperventilating, which could lead to Mk 41 compatibility early on and enabling an different Type 45 (Sea Dart 3/Sea Dart 3 SSM/Tomahawk).

 

[Zoo Tycoon]

I have since thought about a Sea Dart 3 concept; a larger ramjet missile with SAM and SSM versions with Mach 4+ performance and VLS for the 2000s.

It's more about a different shape of ramjet and higher accelerating booster. Wider at the back, sharper at the front. Fast Dart.

While Sea Dart was great for area air defence and could have been further developed in that role, however its fundamental flaw was its boost phase necessary to fire up its ramjet . This was of a size that significantly limited its ability against incoming sea skimming threats. The reality was that an additional/different system would have been essential to provide low level adequate protection, whilst entirely possible, was undesirable for a host of reasons.

 

[zen]

So to clarify my thinking.
3 different AH streams here.

AH1. Sea Dart Success.
Results:-
Land Dart
Sea Dart mkII and FADAWS (future action data automation weapons system) this would see the ASWRE C-band 3D set funded.
Anti-Ship Dart
Air Dart?
Fast Dart

AH.2 SAM.72 instead of Sea Dart.
Developed because unitary missile obviates booster problem as Zoo Tychoon describes.
Probably achieves System C capability.
Results:-
Dire Wolf (XPX.430)
VL Dire Wolf (yes with a booster)
Active Dire Wolf merges with GWS.27 technologies for two SAM comprehensive defence suite. UK answer to Aegis and PAAMS. WolfPack
Updates to missiles incremental from then.
Type 43 Results as stretched Type 23.

AH.3 SRAAM/Taildog funded
Results:-
SHIELD
ASRAAM update with datalink and imaging seeker.
CAMM-SR backwards compatible
CAMM
CAMM-ER

 

[timmymagic]

If you want cheap you might as well lob a SDB at the target, but its an interesting idea given the additional stand-off range.
SpearRecon sounds like approaching UAV territory, but sounds a neat idea.

The 'SpearSimple' would be pretty much an SDB1 analogue, no jet engine just glide only. Limited and cheap guidance (GPS/INS only) with an option for adding SAL if required for additional cost (just like SDB1). Purely to compete with SDB1 and entice purchasers into the Spear 'ecosystem' You'd essentially have cheap (SpearSimple), mid priced (SpearGlide), high end (Spear), exotic and novel options (Spear-EW and SpearRecon). Quite an enticing family of weapons. Once the missile body was integrated with a platform all the weapons options would become available. My thinking around SpearRecon was that MBDA and MoD stated that they were looking at Spiral developments, once you've gone down Glide, EW and Simple what else is there that you can package on a comparatively small missile that adds value? An attritable recon drone for BDA or high value scouting could be an answer, not sure if it would be worth making it recoverable a la Gremlins or contain a parachute.

My CAMM Sabot is more or less a CAMM with a Brimstone front end, though as you say the narrower body makes packaging difficult, presumably MBDA are finding a way to do that given their proposals. I suppose a fatter CAMM would be based on the ER but keep the wider mid-section diameter all the way to the nosecone. Guess that would allow a larger warhead too.

With the proposal for the CAMM/Brimstone mashup for the Indrect Fires requirement MBDA had the missile diameter as 178mm rather than 166mm (i.e. Brimstone diameter rather than CAMM) this removes the repackaging requirement for the MMW seeker head. I suspect the main CAMM involvement would be soft launch and internal components and other minor items, like fins). I suspect the rocket motor may have been new rather than re-used, with the emphasis on slower burning for range rather than outright speed.

My Meteor LAM is based on that 'Green Meteor' of role unknown, I'm assuming a strike weapon of some kind - a SAM makes less sense when you already have CAMM/CAMM-ER.

Agreed I think they saw it as a ground launched ARM or some sort of high end Prompt Strike missile. Can't see the point myself as it gets into GMLRS/PrSM territory then. As a SAM it could be very interesting however...

 

[zen]

I'd have thought the 178mm missile with Brimstone seeker and CAMM technology is a cheaper lighter system than 227mm MLRS rockets.
Use of VL means launcher doesn't have to point at the general direction it's going to fire in and soft/cold launch removes scorching that reveals the location or IR flare from hot TO.
Length of motor suggests higher speed, making it a more time critical solution than subsonic SPEAR.
Another tool in the CAMM box for highly mobile forces.

 

[timmymagic]

I'd have thought the 178mm missile with Brimstone seeker and CAMM technology is a cheaper lighter system than 227mm MLRS rockets.

Definitely lighter. But might not be cheaper than a GMLRS, probably shorter ranged as well (although it could be marginal). Definitely smaller bang though. I'd see it as a complement, essentially it would take over the role of Swingfire and Spike NLOS with one package, and add in extra range to engage targets, particularly moving, spotted by UAV or GMTI.

Length of motor suggests higher speed, making it a more time critical solution than subsonic SPEAR.

Definitely higher speed. But no need to go for superfast acceleration like a CAMM derivative, emphasis on longer burn time for increased range at lower speed. In particular the E/O seeker head would probably be better suited for a slower missile to enable target acquisition and engagement. There were after all issues with the original Tamuz being too fast and hard to control.

Another tool in the CAMM box for highly mobile forces.

Not just land forces...any Navy who bought Sea Ceptor would be mad not to buy it.

 

[zen]

I'd have thought the 178mm missile with Brimstone seeker and CAMM technology is a cheaper lighter system than 227mm MLRS rockets.

Definitely lighter. But might not be cheaper than a GMLRS, probably shorter ranged as well (although it could be marginal). Definitely smaller bang though. I'd see it as a compliment, essentially it would take over the role of Swingfire and Spike NLOS with one package, and add in extra range to engage targets, particularly moving, spotted by UAV or GMTI.

Length of motor suggests higher speed, making it a more time critical solution than subsonic SPEAR.

Definitely higher speed. But no need to go for superfast acceleration like a CAMM derivative, emphasis on longer burn turn for range. In particular the E/O seeker head would probably be better suited for a slower missile to enable target acquisition and engagement. There were after all issues with the original Tamuz being too fast and hard to control.

Another tool in the CAMM box for highly mobile forces.

Not just land forces...any Navy who bought Sea Ceptor would be mad not to buy it.

Absolutely agree, this is an opportunity not to squander.

Also note Hopalite was based around CAMM technology and merged it with Brimstone or Meteor to provide a wide panoply of options. Including the return of a High Velocity penetrator for anti armour.

 

[lordroel]

While I work up a post to explore some British what-ifs in regards to a restructured British missile industry, I'm posting this collection of missiles I have drawn up.


Brimstone

Brimstone - real missile
Brimstone 2 - the real dual-mode Brimstone
Sea Spear - real missile, a shore/boat-launched anti-boat missile
Spear 3 - real missile missile under development, an extended-range weapon with a turbofan and flip-out wings
Spear EW - real project, SEAD version with passive radar emission homing
Glide Spear - real proposal, an engineless Spear relying on gliding for range

No Brimstone 3 yet.