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Bristol VTOL and STOL transports - Type 208, 224, 225

hesham

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Hi,

the second aircraft was a Bristol jet lift VTOL aircraft,with a weight
of 100,000 1b,may be it related to those designs;
http://www.flightglobal.com/FlightPDFArchive/1961/1961%20-%200772.pdf
 

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joncarrfarrelly

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The image is from Bristol Aircraft since 1910, C.H. Barnes, 3rd edition 1988.
 

alertken

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NBMR4, V/STOL transport ran, 1957-65, in concert with NBMR3, V/STOL strike/fighter. Both lapsed, UK choosing, then chopping HS681+P.1154(RAF) and taking C-130K+P.1127(RAF); other NATO Members did various things, many with C-130s which could do much Stollishly, rather cheaper and more operationally practical (how on earth would conscript groundcrew ever have generated some of these schemes?) During all this the Board of Bristol Aeroplane concluded that independence was history and must set about puffing up the value of Filton, to secure best price. They bid original schemes inc. T.208, and licenced/derivation C-130s, inc. a Tyne variant: now that would have been interesting. The new BAC (inc. ex-Bristol) of 7/60 found itself bidding against itself. MoD preferred HSAL+Short.
 

CJGibson

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Ken, re the Tyne-powered C-130. Aside from the pro-HSA/Shorts stance, was it dismissed due to the Air Staff's belief post-1960 that the prop was dead, long live the fan?

Chris
 

zebedee

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Couple of model images from James D. Oughton's Bristol, An Aircraft Album, Ian Allan 1974

First two are of the Type 208, one in STOL configuration and the other in VTOL. Final image is of the Type 224

Zeb
 

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JohnR

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How did it's performance compare to the AW681?

Regards
 

alertken

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CJG #7: Tyne/C-130: this is my recollection. First mooted late-1959, but Argosy then preferred (all to do with rationalisation of industry into (to be HSAL, to be BAC)). By 1963-ish RR was parlous - they had nothing, having evidently backed the wrong V/STOL solution of deadweight liftjets: BSEL's owners (Bristol Aeroplane and HS Group) were simply waiting for such windfall assets as they might care to pick up. MoA, last minute, changed Pegasus to Medway on HS681, 9/63 (the Farnborough Show model's nacelles were shrouded on Day 1 pending decision). Then 10/64, the other lot got in, pledged to chop Defence. RR 11/64, sent in a Black Book (brochure) reviving Tyne/C-130E. PM/Sec.Def/Foreign Sec went to DC 12/64 and came away with Offers for everything, on tick, fixed price.

Roy Jenkins, MoA, as Aero sponsor, tried to retain something at home: Treasury's position was why on earth would we bother to pay upfront cash, uncapped, drift, bloat? How true. He secured Spey in F-4M despite RAF's active disinterest (I remember 170-ish with J79, same price as 118/Spey) and, incredibly, secured Spey in 40 of the 50 F-111K, again over RAF active disinterest. (This is during 1/65). No-one, inc. RR, could see how RR could meet US airframe production rates (UK F-4K/M would be a few of the 72 per month!!) So, no further distraction please by trying to put Tyne on C-130K. All Jenkins got on that was some lumps for Scottish Avn.: any more and we risked disrupting Marietta's line, at crushing penalties.
 

hesham

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Hi,


here is the Bristol STOL & VTOL transport concepts.


http://arc.aiaa.org/doi/abs/10.2514/3.43612
 

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overscan (PaulMM)

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The article is by Bristol Engines, not Bristol Aircraft. The designs are most likely theoretical illustrations of potential Pegasus applications, though they might be the work of an aircraft design company.
 

hesham

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PaulMM (Overscan) said:
The article is by Bristol Engines, not Bristol Aircraft. The designs are most likely theoretical illustrations of potential Pegasus applications, though they might be the work of an aircraft design company.


That's right my dear Paul,just a hypothetical designs.
 

Zoo Tycoon

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Has anyone out there got any details and particularly a drawing of the Bristol Type 225?

Really appreciate if you could find anything.
 

hesham

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Hi Zootycoon,


the only info for BAC-225,it was STOL transport aircraft project for GOR-351,powered
by four Rolls Royce RB.168 turbofan engines,and there is a maritime recce version
intended for Spec. GOR357.
 

overscan (PaulMM)

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Checked Nimrod's Genesis for the OR.357 version - has lots of BAC designs from Weybridge, but no Bristol 225.
 

Jemiba

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... nor in C.H. Barnes "Bristol Aircraft Since 1910", Putnam. The list ends
with Type 221 as "last true Bristol project", which actually was the Fairey
F.D.2 with ogee wing.
 

overscan (PaulMM)

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I'm pretty sure 225 existed and was a Bristol STOL transport to OR.351 (winner: AW.681) but it dates to after the BAC merger. 221 was the last project from Bristol as an independent company. 223 was SST.
 

Arjen

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In the 3rd edition of 'Bristol Aircraft', Barnes gives the following data:
4 x 12400 lb s t Rolls-Royce Spey RB 168
span 148 ft 6 in
length 103 ft
height 35 ft 8 in
wing area 2350 sq ft
empty weight 86000 lb
all-up weight 217000 lb
max. speed 450 mph
max. range 5500 mls
crew of 4 for freighter, crew of 10 for MR

Quote from Barnes:
The final project to bear a Bristol type number, in 1962, was the Type 225, an enlarged STOL development of Type 208, offered with alternative fuselages to meet either O.R. 351 for a tactical freighter, or O.R. 357 for a maritime reconaissance aircraft; both variants would have had wings, tailplanes, powerplants and landing gear in common.
 

overscan (PaulMM)

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http://www.google.com/patents/US3193217


According to Andrew Dow (Pegasus: The Heart of the Harrier) this patent is Type 208 related. The 4 Pegasus engines were put in 2 nacelles, probably to avoid engines being too far outboard.
 

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TsrJoe

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Bristol 208 tactical transport aircraft brochure ...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BRISTOL-AIRCRAFT-BRITISH-AIRCRAFT-CORPORATION-208-TACTICAL-TRANSPORT-AIRCRAFT-/232794326759
 

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