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Boeing's New F-15EX

Mark Nankivil

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Maro.Kyo

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Yep, was there though worked caused me to miss the launch which I was told was pretty darn good!

Enjoy the Day! Mark
Uhh, wasn't EX supposed to be Strike Eagle but with single seat only? Or am I wrong? That tail structure means it is indeed EX which gets me confused...
 

isayyo2

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Yep, was there though worked caused me to miss the launch which I was told was pretty darn good!

Enjoy the Day! Mark
Uhh, wasn't EX supposed to be Strike Eagle but with single seat only? Or am I wrong? That tail structure means it is indeed EX which gets me confused...
Back seat is still "Missionised" for anyone who wants to hop in, they haven't built single seater's lighter airframes since the 80s.
Apparently the last order of D's for the Saudi Air Force were really heavier E airframes in gray paint?
 

helmutkohl

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Wow looks almost exactly the same as the earlier models

so far the only way to distinguish the EX from the others is at the back
with the straighter, elongated 'stinger'

the other Es had a sloped, and shorter 'stinger'

Screen Shot 2021-02-24 at 12.45.51.png
 

aim9xray

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Other F-15EX visual ID features compared to current USAF F-15-series jets:
- F110 engine "turkey feathers" (F100 engines are flown without turkey feathers)
- Identical left & right fin tip pods (antennas moved down to stingers)
- Forward-looking antenna(s) below cockpit.

That said, the visible differences are few and difficult to distinguish (about as challenging as F-14B versus F-14D), but under the skin, this ain't your Dad's mudhen.
 

helmutkohl

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^ good call about the turkey feathers, im surprised the older ones didnt have it

1276px-Underside_view_of_an_F-15_Eagle.JPEG


on a side note, I really miss the old USAF colored roundels.
 

aim9xray

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The Pratt & Whitney F100s did originally come with turkey fathers (and still do on the F-16s). They were removed from the engines used on the F-15s in the '80s supposedly because they were taking a beating in the dirty airflow and it was cheaper to take them off than to have to continually fix them. That's the story I heard, YMMV, trust but verify.

OTH, I don't think I've ever seen an F110 without turkey feathers.
 

Colonial-Marine

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The Pratt & Whitney F100s did originally come with turkey fathers (and still do on the F-16s). They were removed from the engines used on the F-15s in the '80s supposedly because they were taking a beating in the dirty airflow and it was cheaper to take them off than to have to continually fix them. That's the story I heard, YMMV, trust but verify.

OTH, I don't think I've ever seen an F110 without turkey feathers.
I've always thought that the lack of the "turkey feathers" diminished the appearance of an otherwise very handsome aircraft. Glad the F110 engined aircraft keep them at least.
 

F119Doctor

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The Pratt & Whitney F100s did originally come with turkey fathers (and still do on the F-16s). They were removed from the engines used on the F-15s in the '80s supposedly because they were taking a beating in the dirty airflow and it was cheaper to take them off than to have to continually fix them. That's the story I heard, YMMV, trust but verify.

OTH, I don't think I've ever seen an F110 without turkey feathers.
Correct, the airflow around the back of the F-15 fuselage and the two closely spaced round nozzle beat up the F100 turkey feathers. They were removed as a significant cost and maintenance savings, with minimal performance impact. I’m sure there is a signature impact, but that wasn’t a big concern at the time.

The composite turkey feathers on the PW-229 designed and tested to be able to live in the F-15 environment, but the USAF decided to leave them off for the F-15E application.

interestingly, when the USAF ran a service evaluation on F110-GE-100 engines on two F-15Es at Nellis AFB in the late 1990s, they had lots of nozzle issues, and eventually removed the turkey feathers on those engines. I assume that GE has improved them on the current production GE-129 engines.

On a side note, the USAF has also removed the turkey feathers from the F101 engines on the B-1B bombers, presumably for a similar durability issue.
 

bring_it_on

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If the first aircraft is indicative of the final configuration, then the EX can be visually distinguished from the other Adv. Eagles by the absence of MAWS. An empty rear seat will probably be the first thing most would notice.
 

BDF

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Yep, was there though worked caused me to miss the launch which I was told was pretty darn good!

Enjoy the Day! Mark
Uhh, wasn't EX supposed to be Strike Eagle but with single seat only? Or am I wrong? That tail structure means it is indeed EX which gets me confused...
Back seat is still "Missionised" for anyone who wants to hop in, they haven't built single seater's lighter airframes since the 80s.
Apparently the last order of D's for the Saudi Air Force were really heavier E airframes in gray paint?
It is my understanding that the USAF wanted single seaters but Boeing said there would be an extended lead time and it would be faster to go with the two seater. It'd be cool if we could get enough NGAD airframes so that we could eventually slide these over to mud hen squadrons to replace those as NGADs (whatever it ends up being) replaces these at F-15C squadrons. Probably won't be able to buy enough 6th gen jets but you never know...
 

helmutkohl

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^ reading about NGAD and F-15s makes me think that in the future
air forces might end up using a mix of 6th gen and 4th gen as a (hi-lo) mix.
skipping over/retiring 5th gen due to high costs
 

sferrin

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On a side note, the USAF has also removed the turkey feathers from the F101 engines on the B-1B bombers, presumably for a similar durability issue.
Totally off topic, but my SMSgt superintendent in the ERRC at Dyess was the guy who submitted that IDEA as a Staff or Tech and got the $10,000 for it.
I wonder if the guy who thought of it for the F-15 got a royalty. ;)
 

helmutkohl

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From the link
with flyaway unit cost estimate of $87.7 million.
welp
thats roughly the same ballpark as the F-35A
although the 35 has like 50?% higher operating costs. but Lockmart claims to get it down to costs that are around the same as Boeing's projection for the EX.
so at which point, why not go for the 35?
 

sferrin

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I wonder if the guy who thought of it for the F-15 got a royalty. ;)
Don't know @sferrin, but if he was active duty then the max you could get for recommending something to save the Air Force money was $10K.
It was a joke. IIRC the F-15 had been lacking "turkey feathers" for some time before they got rid of them on the B-1B. Just wondering if a B-1B guy got $10,000 for passing something along he saw on an Eagle. ;)
 

F119Doctor

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I wonder if the guy who thought of it for the F-15 got a royalty. ;)
Don't know @sferrin, but if he was active duty then the max you could get for recommending something to save the Air Force money was $10K.
It was a joke. IIRC the F-15 had been lacking "turkey feathers" for some time before they got rid of them on the B-1B. Just wondering if a B-1B guy got $10,000 for passing something along he saw on an Eagle. ;)
Not a bad guess. The two closely spaced round nozzles in each B-1B nacelle probably has as much flow turbulence has the back of the F-15. I know the turkey feathers were already history when I started working F100-100/200 engines around 1981...

FYI - putting two closely spaced rectangular nozzles together has a much nicer flow field than two round nozzles. Another possible reason that the F-22 has 2D nozzles, along with thrust vectoring and signature benefits.
 

TomcatViP

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Ideally you want an aerodynamic cone there between the two round nozzles to give you a constant expansion sections as far as possible (see Flanker and Migs for example).
 

mkellytx

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It was a joke. IIRC the F-15 had been lacking "turkey feathers" for some time before they got rid of them on the B-1B. Just wondering if a B-1B guy got $10,000 for passing something along he saw on an Eagle. ;)
The way Todd explained it to me, he was sick and tired of repairing cracked turkey feathers, he knew of the F-15 solution since he'd worked on F100's in the past. He was somewhat surprised he was the first person to fill out and file all of the paperwork for the IDEA. Just goes to show persistence is just as important as innovation.
 

F119Doctor

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Ideally you want an aerodynamic cone there between the two round nozzles to give you a constant expansion sections as far as possible (see Flanker and Migs for example).
That makes the engines “not closely spaced”. Placing them wider apart helps reduce the turbulence and reduces transonic drag, but increases supersonic base drag and Asymmetric single engine thrust effects - F-14, Su-27, Su-57 are examples.

Closely spaced 2D nozzles can be the best of both worlds, if properly developed.
 

Archibald

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The F-15 is still such a beautiful aircraft ! Nice to see "fresh" ones. On range and speed and weapon load it remains a better bargain that a F-35 ; but of course the F-35 has networked weaponry and sensors plus stealth. Clearly the new F-15s are a) to bolster airframe numbers and b) to be used on lower risk theathers of operations were stealth is less useful and c) for rapid transformation of squadrons already flying worn out F-15s. From this point of view it makes some sense, although it is also quite startling to see USAF buying again an aircraft not purchased since 2004 (!).

As for two-seat... it is a matter of the F-15E-derived export variants all around the world and all around the 2000s and 2010s ultimately outliving any single-seat F-15C straight derivative.

That "optional" second seat is quite interesting: even today, a RIO remain useful for some peculiar missions. A similar debate happened with the Rafale in France, Navy versus Air Force. The former had to sacrifice the two seat variants as it was a little marginal on CdG. The Air Force was luckier and decided a large chunk of its Rafale fleet would be two seaters to ease the pilot workload on some missions, notably strike.

At the end of the day, the F-15 already had screwed the Rafale here and there (South Korea) and now it screws the F-35 for USAF. Not bad for a 50 years old design (next year in July: 1972 !)
 
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AGS-1787

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That was quick! The f-15 was really a super fighter, it shows when it took more than 30 years to have airplanes with better performance
 

TMA1

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yeah it is still king of the skies. only the f-22 surpasses it as an air superiority fighter. I wonder how much f-35 tech has been added. the pilot interface is completely new and looks more akin to f-35 than previous eagle variants.
 

helmutkohl

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How different is the EX from the QA?

they seem to look virtually the same, down to the Turkey feathers on the engine

(interesting camo too)

EivjgzBXcAE23-O.jpg
 

haavarla

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Which hardpoint store is certified for what weight?
Any difference from the F-15E
?
 

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