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Boeing's New F-15EX

rooster

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Makes me wonder if they could fit another pair at the front of the CFTs. (And why they'd put them at the back, where they're angled way down, instead of up front where they'd be level.)
Even if they could, that's a lot of mass and the aerodynamics.... What would that do to aircraft range?
 

eagle

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The GBU-10 is about 2100 pounds. 5 along with 2 tanks have been carried and used operationally.
At 2250 lbs, AGM-158 weighs not much more than a GBU-10.
 

TomcatViP

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F-15QA crashed on landing. Both pilot ejected:
A Boeing F-15 was involved in a ground ejection incident at MidAmerica St. Louis Airport around 07.30AM LT on May 18, 2021. According to the reports, both pilots successfully ejected: one of them refused treatment and the other was taken to the hospital with minor injuries, KMOV reported.

 

FighterJock

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F-15QA crashed on landing. Both pilot ejected:
A Boeing F-15 was involved in a ground ejection incident at MidAmerica St. Louis Airport around 07.30AM LT on May 18, 2021. According to the reports, both pilots successfully ejected: one of them refused treatment and the other was taken to the hospital with minor injuries, KMOV reported.


Thankfully both crew managed to eject and are okay. I am surprised that one of the crew refused medical treatment, I thought that it was mandatory that you got taken to hospital and checked out after an ejection.
 

stealthflanker

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They ejected while the plane is still on the ground ?

Yes. The plane ended up in the grass along the runway, but it's not clear yet whether it was there (or headed that direction) before they punched out.
Looks very salvageable at least. but i expect cockpit electronics would be done for.
 

FighterJock

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isayyo2

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Some good results from Northern Edge


The F-15EX has “full air-to-ground capabilities,” but those were not exercised in the wargame, he said. “The EX’s primary goal was to go up there and execute the current C-model mission.” It performed air dominance as well as homeland defense missions, he said.
Perhaps expanding the future ANG missions, or a back-door pilot to replace/modernize the existing E fleet?
 

HaloCE

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Some good results from Northern Edge


The F-15EX has “full air-to-ground capabilities,” but those were not exercised in the wargame, he said. “The EX’s primary goal was to go up there and execute the current C-model mission.” It performed air dominance as well as homeland defense missions, he said.
Perhaps expanding the future ANG missions, or a back-door pilot to replace/modernize the existing E fleet?
The article Made It sound a bit like they used the Eagle's EW system to act as an improvised growler for the F35s.
I wander if they could use some F15s to carry powerful jammers and not depend on the growlers anymore.
 

Ingraman

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How can an USAF General be "pretty impressed" by just a couple of "new" hardpoints? I can understand EPAWSS... but the pylons...
 

TomS

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How can an USAF General be "pretty impressed" by just a couple of "new" hardpoints? I can understand EPAWSS... but the pylons...

Lieutenant Colonel, not General.

And if those two extra hardpoints means four extra AMRAAM, that's a potential increase of almost 70% in onboard BVR shots per aircraft, from 6 AMRAAM to 10 AMRAAM (plus 2 AIM-9X). That's "pretty impressive" in my book.
 

Josh_TN

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I suspect they are more impressed with the EW system compared to plane jane F-15s, especially the C model. The radar and cockpit would also be radically different.
 

Dragon029

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Most, if not all of the C's have AESAs these days; the cockpits though would definitely be radically different.
 

GARGEAN

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Prior to each (D)ACBT engagement or intercept. In addition, a check for proper operation of all
transfer tanks (wing tanks/CFTs balanced and tank 1 feeding) will be performed prior to and between
engagements or planned maneuvering above 30 units AOA.

Google "F-15 + AoA + Limit"
If that's the only thing - that might've been misunderstanding. "Unit" is not degree, it's measure on AoA indicator, smaller than actual degree quite substantially.
1621788747997.png

So yeah, F-15 being capable of 35 degrees AoA is... Let's stay a hefty overstatement. Same goes to it being easily better than all mentioned platforms.
 

TomcatViP

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It's not because I take 10 min to find a link suitable to awnser your request that this only should be the base for a denial.

After another 10min:
The MP was flying as lead of a two-ship formation during a dissimilar basic fighter maneuver
(BFM) sortie with an F-22A, assigned to the 525th Fighter Squadron. While maneuvering
defensively in relationship to the Mishap Wingman (MW), at approximately 5,400 feet mean sea
level (MSL) and 180 knots indicated airspeed (KIAS), the MP initiated a vertical climb to
65 degrees nose high, 20 degrees of right bank, 39 degrees Angle-of-Attack (AOA), and 1.2 Gs,
which apexed near 6,300 feet MSL and 105 KIAS, before a significant nose drop occurred. The
MP perceived the MA was not tracking as desired and initiated an unload of approximately one
fist-width’s forward stick with full right rudder. The nose pitched down and to the right to
65 degrees nose low, 110 degrees of right bank, -26 degrees AOA and G forces decreasing from
1.2 to -0.3 Gs. With right rudder still commanded, the MA experienced a negative G departure
from controlled flight with a snap roll entry to the left that transitioned to an inverted, negative G
spin. The MP received no indications of hydraulic, electrical, fuel, engine, structural, or flight
control system malfunctions. The MP was unable to recover the MA and ejected at approximately
1,100 feet MSL.
The Accident Investigation Board (AIB) President found, by a preponderance of the evidence, the
cause of the mishap was the MP’s improper application of forward stick with full right rudder,
 

GARGEAN

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It's not because I take 10 min to find a link suitable to awnser your request that this only should be the base for a denial.

After another 10min:
The MP was flying as lead of a two-ship formation during a dissimilar basic fighter maneuver
(BFM) sortie with an F-22A, assigned to the 525th Fighter Squadron. While maneuvering
defensively in relationship to the Mishap Wingman (MW), at approximately 5,400 feet mean sea
level (MSL) and 180 knots indicated airspeed (KIAS), the MP initiated a vertical climb to
65 degrees nose high, 20 degrees of right bank, 39 degrees Angle-of-Attack (AOA), and 1.2 Gs,
which apexed near 6,300 feet MSL and 105 KIAS, before a significant nose drop occurred. The
MP perceived the MA was not tracking as desired and initiated an unload of approximately one
fist-width’s forward stick with full right rudder. The nose pitched down and to the right to
65 degrees nose low, 110 degrees of right bank, -26 degrees AOA and G forces decreasing from
1.2 to -0.3 Gs. With right rudder still commanded, the MA experienced a negative G departure
from controlled flight with a snap roll entry to the left that transitioned to an inverted, negative G
spin. The MP received no indications of hydraulic, electrical, fuel, engine, structural, or flight
control system malfunctions. The MP was unable to recover the MA and ejected at approximately
1,100 feet MSL.
The Accident Investigation Board (AIB) President found, by a preponderance of the evidence, the
cause of the mishap was the MP’s improper application of forward stick with full right rudder,
And this is the case with instantaneous AoA in which plane crashed?.. How is that an indicator of useful performance?
 

TomcatViP

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If the plane hasn't stalled at 39deg of attack, it's a useful performance (note the mentioned attitude of 65 nose up). Stall is angle of attack dependent (not speed, nor attitude) ;)
 

TMA1

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The f-15 is still a formidable fighter and could in my eyes match up against foreign fifth gen fighters fairly well. Still though im glad ngad is coming pretty soon.
 

DWG

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If the plane hasn't stalled at 39deg of attack, it's a useful performance (note the mentioned attitude of 65 nose up). Stall is angle of attack dependent (not speed, nor attitude) ;)
It's clearly not a sustainable performance, the fact is he did stall upon reaching that AoA, and it's not an instantaneous process, so the stall may well have become inevitable at a significantly lower AoA. If you're actively pitching up the nose as the stall initiates the nose drop first has to overcome the increase in AoA before it actually starts to drop, which probably puts you deeper into the stall before you realise what's happening. KIAS is interesting, he was very low energy to try that sort of extreme pitch-up - makes me wonder if he was trying to match the F-22 in low speed manoeuvring and forgot it has thrust vectoring and an F-15 doesn't.
 

AGS-1787

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It says that he used a full rudder while on negative alpha while being slow, so it looks like he set the airplane for an inverted spin. There are videos of f-15Es pulling high alpha but it is mostly instantaneous, not sustained, apparently, the f-15 starts to lose stability if you keep pulling alpha so it is not like a hornet. The new EX might have a flight control system that makes the airplane carefree and helps prevent stuff like the accident mentioned above while extracting more performance of the aircraft. I don't think it is wrong to purchase them, the Russians have su-35s, Chinese have the flanker clones. I think that the EX might end up having a better radar than stealth aircraft and could act as a missile platform.
 

GARGEAN

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The f-15 is still a formidable fighter and could in my eyes match up against foreign fifth gen fighters fairly well. Still though im glad ngad is coming pretty soon.
Oh, it definitely is, no argue here. Just pushing "it's the best in everything and only gets better" agenda in areas where it is definitely not the case is unwise imo.
 

TomcatViP

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That's not an agenda. Don't evade the discussion by calling names please.

The example clearly states that the departure was with his change in direction (reversal). If you are not in a stall, you are within your flying domain.
Moreover, the plane is in a bank. Most a/c are yaw limited to the point that at high alpha (for many around 25 degree), rudder is rendered inoperative and roll restricted (the Meuh effect on the Rafale - Release stick, Release stick).
You have noticed the low speed (180 downto 105kt) but not the fact that it was an evasive manoeuvre. I see it as of much interest.

Last but not least, when it comes to the EX, the test pilot demonstrated such confidence in the new model that he repeatedly hit the pitch limiter right above the runway, in a bank at the end of his initial flight.The videos were posted here. Have a fresh look at it.

View: https://youtu.be/kJEQse4Aq4Q?t=40
 
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Hydroman

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That's not an agenda. Don't evade the discussion by calling names please.

The example clearly states that the departure was with his change in direction (reversal). If you are not in a stall, you are within your flying domain.
Moreover, the plane is in a bank. Most a/c are yaw limited to the point that at high alpha (for many around 25 degree), rudder is rendered inoperative and roll restricted (the Meuh effect on the Rafale - Release stick, Release stick).
You have noticed the low speed (180 downto 105kt) but not the fact that it was an evasive manoeuvre. I see it as of much interest.

Last but not least, when it comes to the EX, the test pilot demonstrated such confidence in the new model that he repeatedly hit the pitch limiter right above the runway, in a bank at the end of his initial flight.The video where posted here. Have a fresh look at it.

View: https://youtu.be/kJEQse4Aq4Q?t=40
TomcatViP is correct. That climbing turn a twards the end of the video was F-35-like, I noticed this when the video was first released, the benefit of a FBW FCAS. The F-15 was limited by its hydromechanical controls (even though is had a CAS). Frankly, the F-15 should have been converted to FBW a long time ago. The FBW FCAS will really increase the F-15's agility and should create care-free handling as well, there is a reason this plane has been around for this many decades, still an excellent aircraft. I worked F-14's when I was in the US Navy, imagine what the F-14 could have been with FBW and the GE engines?
 

aim9xray

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Actually, that did happen near the end of the Tomcat's life. The Digital Flight Control System (DFCS) - from Marconi was (as I understand it) a drop-in (Form/Fit/Function+) replacement for the analogue AFCS. It didn't change the general maneuvering characteristics (much) as those were driven by the aerodynamics and physical relationships of airframe elements. But I understand that it helped in the edge cases and had greater reliability.

This might not fit the pedantic definition of FBW, but if you expand the definition to "Pilot makes contol input, computer thinks about it, computer commands the control surfaces to achieve the desired effect" I think you're good to go - even if the pushrods, torque tubes and pulleys are still in the mix.

One physical change that did happen with the advent of the F-14A+ was that the glove vanes were either deactivated (F-14A) or removed (F-14A+/F-14B and F-14D).
 

haavarla

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That's not an agenda. Don't evade the discussion by calling names please.

The example clearly states that the departure was with his change in direction (reversal). If you are not in a stall, you are within your flying domain.
Moreover, the plane is in a bank. Most a/c are yaw limited to the point that at high alpha (for many around 25 degree), rudder is rendered inoperative and roll restricted (the Meuh effect on the Rafale - Release stick, Release stick).
You have noticed the low speed (180 downto 105kt) but not the fact that it was an evasive manoeuvre. I see it as of much interest.

Last but not least, when it comes to the EX, the test pilot demonstrated such confidence in the new model that he repeatedly hit the pitch limiter right above the runway, in a bank at the end of his initial flight.The videos were posted here. Have a fresh look at it.
Yeah. Better very late than never..
The new F-15 getting an much needed upgrade that increase its flight envelope AND makes it safer to fly as well.

Something the usuall suspects never got around to understand when Sukhoi pitched the "new" Flanker, Su-35S back in 2008.. They pointed out it was too little and too late for the Russian AF because the F-35 would be dominating the skies.

Still, Improved CAS and FBW systems with integrated TVC, upon which Test pilots stated it increased flight safty all over the flight envelope.

something of a double standard..;)
 

Colonial-Marine

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Some good results from Northern Edge


The F-15EX has “full air-to-ground capabilities,” but those were not exercised in the wargame, he said. “The EX’s primary goal was to go up there and execute the current C-model mission.” It performed air dominance as well as homeland defense missions, he said.
Perhaps expanding the future ANG missions, or a back-door pilot to replace/modernize the existing E fleet?
The article Made It sound a bit like they used the Eagle's EW system to act as an improvised growler for the F35s.
I wander if they could use some F15s to carry powerful jammers and not depend on the growlers anymore.
One of the concepts for the FAST packs that became the CFTs used on the F-15 was to put EW equipment in them. It seems like an EF-15 isn't beyond the realm of possibility although I fear the Air Force would rather just continue to "borrow" Navy assets to do the job.

Short of a new design (think F-111 replacement) I think an F-15 variant would be the best option the USAF has for that role.
 

Josh_TN

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The USAF has no interest in an escort jammer. They are focusing on off board systems, for better or worse.
 

isayyo2

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With Stations 1&9 finally in service, I wonder how willpower and how much FMS $$$ would be needed to integrate the Next Generation Jammer pod on stations 2&8?
 

DWG

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Actually, that did happen near the end of the Tomcat's life. The Digital Flight Control System (DFCS) - from Marconi was (as I understand it) a drop-in (Form/Fit/Function+) replacement for the analogue AFCS. It didn't change the general maneuvering characteristics (much) as those were driven by the aerodynamics and physical relationships of airframe elements. But I understand that it helped in the edge cases and had greater reliability.
I wasn't on the project, but it was just down the corridor, and basically was a rework of our Typhoon technology. IIRC, one of the big advantages was pitched as preventing some of the F-14's nastier stall characteristics.

Full carefree handling is a major advantage in dogfight type situations. It means you can pull the physical limits of the aircraft without having to think about what you're doing, and can slam the stick from one extreme to the other just as often as you want.
 

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Josh_TN

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The USAF has no interest in an escort jammer. They are focusing on off board systems, for better or worse.

They are already using the F-15s as.


As a test, but yes that is as far as I think they will get to an EF-15. There’s no way they are suddenly investing money in a capacity they’ve had no interest in since the spark bark.
 

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