Boeing P-8A Poseidon (737-800EFV) MMA (Multi-mission Maritime Aircraft)

sferrin said:
Flyaway said:
Don't tell me they are going to waste yet more time looking for a cheaper alternative. The longer this goes on the more likely it is they will persuade themselves they can do without filling this role.

The part that blows my mind is they're talking about buying a whole NINE aircraft. NINE! How many did they have during the Cold War covering the GIUK Gap? A hundred? More?

Is this just a consequence of the peculiar arrangement where the RAF operates the MPAs which are intended to protect assets
that the RAF is institutionally hostile towards?
 
TomS said:
Much less. There were 46 Nimrod MR.1s built. Of those, 35 became MR.2s and 3 became R.1s.

That's surprising. The USN use to operate hundreds of P-3s. Looks like we're down to about 120. No SOSUS. No Vikings. Good thing the Cold War is over I guess. /sarc
 
marauder2048 said:
Is this just a consequence of the peculiar arrangement where the RAF operates the MPAs which are intended to protect assets
that the RAF is institutionally hostile towards?

More just that there is little money and P-8 is very expensive. I don't see Navy Command clamouring to cut ship numbers to fund this capability (as they are allowed to do so).
 
sferrin said:
TomS said:
Much less. There were 46 Nimrod MR.1s built. Of those, 35 became MR.2s and 3 became R.1s.

That's surprising. The USN use to operate hundreds of P-3s. Looks like we're down to about 120. No SOSUS. No Vikings. Good thing the Cold War is over I guess. /sarc

No Vikings in US service; refurbed S-3s might be in ROKN and misc. service if LM's projections are correct.
 
marauder2048 said:
No Vikings in US service; refurbed S-3s might be in ROKN and misc. service if LM's projections are correct.

I'll believe that when I see it.
 
Just a little diversion. last week, a P-8 shot 5 (that I saw) touch-and-goes at the St Louis Downtown Airport. Maybe they were checking out the MiG 15 that was parked outside Hangar 1.
 

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Perhaps the whole thing is the MOD's way of playing hardball with Boeing over the price.
 
Hood said:
Looks like that article has stoked plenty of speculation as to what might be acquired and how. If cost is the major issue then I suspect a C295 or G650-based MPA is more likely.

If it's price, then the C295 would seem to be the only option, really. A G650 (Or Bombardier equivalent) airframe isn't significantly cheaper than a B737 and integrating new mission systems into it would likely cost more than buying the P-8 off the shelf.
 
Kawasaki P1 as a dark horse contender? Another already-integrated airframe, and if the Japanese are willing to let them go at incremental cost rather than amortizing in development, it could be cost-effective...
 
The Sunday Mail gets it wrong:

"UK to obtain nine P-8 maritime patrol aircraft"
23 November, 2015 BY: Greg Waldron Singapore

Source:
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/uk-to-obtain-nine-p-8-maritime-patrol-aircraft-419371/
 
Triton said:
The Sunday Mail gets it wrong:

"UK to obtain nine P-8 maritime patrol aircraft"
23 November, 2015 BY: Greg Waldron Singapore

Source:
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/uk-to-obtain-nine-p-8-maritime-patrol-aircraft-419371/

Unfortunately, Cameron & Co. seem to be up to their usual fun and games; He's promised that nine P-8s will be ordered by the end of the decade. Given his past record, I fear we are looking at vapourware here, to put it politely.
 
Why is there any reason to think that the UK was going to buy anything other than P8?

The RAF has had crews training, deployed and winning competitions in them for the best part of 5years.

http://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=80308
 
Grey Havoc said:
Triton said:
The Sunday Mail gets it wrong:

"UK to obtain nine P-8 maritime patrol aircraft"
23 November, 2015 BY: Greg Waldron Singapore

Source:
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/uk-to-obtain-nine-p-8-maritime-patrol-aircraft-419371/

Unfortunately, Cameron & Co. seem to be up to their usual fun and games; He's promised that nine P-8s will be ordered by the end of the decade. Given his past record, I fear we are looking at vapourware here, to put it politely.

As far as I am aware he said they would begin to be become operational before the end of this parliament.
 
mrmalaya said:
Why is there any reason to think that the UK was going to buy anything other than P8?

The RAF has had crews training, deployed and winning competitions in them for the best part of 5years.

http://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=80308

I think P8 was long seen as the favo(u)red option but the SC-130J and the P1 were credible altenatives which (along with the other offerors) led to a push from some quarters for a formal tender/competition.
The decision to retain C-130Js in their present role probably nixed the SC-130J option and the immaturity and unknown O&S costs for the P1 probably nixed it.

The remaining platforms are fine for protecting fisheries from marauding trawlers but not well suited for protecting your carriers and seaborne strategic deterrent.
 
Soem USN P-8 news that we seem to have missed:

http://www.janes.com/article/53639/us-navy-to-activate-additional-p-8-workstation-for-high-tempo-asw-and-asuw-missions

It seems they're adding a sixth operator console to the Poseidon to handle the workload. A good reason for a larger airframe -- you've got growth potential like this without major effort.
 
TomS said:
Soem USN P-8 news that we seem to have missed:

A good reason for a larger airframe -- you've got growth potential like this without major effort.

You had me at wet galley and full sized lavatory :)
 
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-singapore-southchinasea-idUSKBN0TQ2K720151208
 
Flyaway said:
Spy Plane?

I read that article today and that annoyed me too.
Much like articles that refer to any given warship as a "battleship" - it never ceases to amaze me how ill-informed modern journalists tend to be about the subjects they report on.
 
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/boeing-secures-deal-for-20-us-and-australian-p-8-pos-421406/
 
http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/02/11/pentagon-looking-at-iceland-hub-for-its-spy-planes/
 
UK's Boeing P-8 purchase gets US tick of approval

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/uks-boeing-p-8-purchase-gets-us-tick-of-approval-423543/
 
Australia's 1st P-8A Poseidon MPA completes maiden flight.

Video, picture and article:
http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4015
 
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/farnborough-uk-firms-up-two-big-military-buys-427216/
 
Norway plans $1.15 billion order for five Boeing Poseidon military aircraft


Norway plans to order five Boeing Co P-8A Poseidon maritime patrol planes to maintain its
surveillance capacity and meet future security challenges, the NATO country's Defence Ministry said.

Following an agreement in Norway's parliament to boost long-term military spending, the 9.83
billion Norwegian crowns ($1.15 billion) purchase will likely face only minor political opposition.

Norway's long maritime border with neighboring Russia has become a renewed focus for the
country's military planners following the Russian annexation of Ukraine's Crimea region. Norway's
territorial waters also stretch far into the Arctic.

Neighboring Sweden and Finland, which are not in the NATO alliance, have also expressed
concerns about incursions by Russian submarines and other naval vessels.

"The new security situation increases our demand for situational awareness in our own vicinity.
The ability to handle current and future challenges must therefore be strengthened,"
Defence Minister Ine Eriksen Soereide said.

"The introduction of the Poseidon aircraft is crucial for Norway to maintain a leading position and
expertise on strategic conditions in northern areas," she said in the statement released late on
Friday. The statement did not specifically mention Russia.

The submarine-hunting patrol planes will replace Norway's current fleet of six P-3 Orion and three
DA-20 Jet Falcon aircraft and are expected to be delivered in 2021 and 2022. Norway will also buy
related intelligence equipment, the ministry said.

(Reporting by Joachim Dagenborg; Editing by Terje Solsvik and Alison Williams)

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-norway-boeing-idUSKBN13N0LN
 
The RAAF's first P-8A has arrived in Australia. Media release at http://www.minister.defence.gov.au/2016/11/16/minister-for-defence-and-minister-for-defence-industry-australias-first-p-8-poseidon-touches-down/.

Imagery for the ceremony at Canberra is available at http://images.defence.gov.au/S20162831.

Two weeks later four different maritime aircraft flown by RAAF 11 Squadron over the last 76 years flew in formation around Adelaide. This included the P-8A, the AP-3C Orion as well as a Neptune and a Catalina. Imagery at https://images.defence.gov.au/S20163085
 
Norway's Formal FMS case


WASHINGTON, Dec. 21, 2016 - The State Department has made a determination approving a possible Foreign Military Sale to the Government of Norway for P-8A Aircraft and associated support. The estimated cost is $1.75 billion. The Defense Security Cooperation Agency delivered the required certification notifying Congress of this possible sale on December 20, 2016.

The Government of Norway has requested a possible sale of up to five (5) P-8A Patrol Aircraft, each includes: Commercial Engines, Tactical Open Mission Software (TOMS), Electro-Optical (EO) and Infrared (IO) MX-20HD, AN/AAQ-2(V)1 Acoustic System, AN/APY-10 Radar, ALQ-240 Electronic Support Measures. Also included are eleven (11) Multifunctional Distribution System Joint Tactical Radio Systems (MIDS JTRS); eight (8) Guardian Laser Transmitter Assemblies (GLTA) for the AN/AAQ-24(V)N; eight (8) System Processors for AN/AAQ-24(V)N; forty-two (42) AN/AAR- 54 Missile Warning Sensors for the AN/AAQ-24(V)N; fourteen (14) LN-251 with Embedded Global Positioning Systems (GPS)/Inertial Navigation Systems (EGIs); and two thousand (2,000) AN/SSQ-125 Multi-Static Active Coherent (MAC) Source Sonobouys; spares; spare engine; support equipment; operational support systems; training; maintenance trainer/classrooms; publications; software; engineering and logistics technical assistance; Foreign Liaison Officer support; contractor engineering technical services; repair and return; transportation; aircraft ferry; and other associated training and support. The total estimated program cost is $1.75 billion.

This proposed sale will contribute to the foreign policy and national security of the United States by helping to improve the security of a NATO ally which has been, and continues to be, an important force for political stability throughout the world. The proposed sale will allow Norway to maintain its Maritime Patrol Aircraft (MPA) capability following retirement of its P-3C MPA. This sale will strengthen collective NATO defense and enhance Norway’s regional and global allied contributions.

Norway has procured and operated U.S. produced P-3 Orion MPAs for over 40 years, providing critical capabilities to NATO and coalition maritime operations. Norway has maintained a close MPA acquisition and sustainment relationship with the U.S. Navy over this period. The proposed sale will allow Norway to recapitalize, modernize, and sustain its MPA capability for the next 30 years. As a long-time P-3 operator, Norway will have no difficulty transitioning its MPA force to the P-8A and absorbing these aircraft into its armed forces.

The proposed sale of this equipment and support will not alter the basic military balance in the region.

The prime contractor involved in this sale is The Boeing Company, Seattle, WA. Additional contractors include: Air Cruisers Co, LLC; Arnprior Aerospace, Canada; AVOX Zodiac Aerospace; BAE; Canadian Commercial Corporation (CCC)/EMS; Compass David Clark; DLS/ViaSat, Carlsbad, CA; DRS; Exelis, McLean, VA; GC Micro, Petaluma, CA; General Electric, UK; Harris; Joint Electronics; Martin Baker; Northrop Grumman Corp, Falls Church, VA; Pole Zero, Cincinnati, OH; Raytheon, Waltham, MA; Raytheon, UK; Rockwell Collins, Cedar Rapids, IA; Spirit Aero, Wichita, KS; Symmetries Telephonies, Farmingdale, NY; Terma, Arlington, VA; Viking; and WESCAM. Norway does require an offset agreement. Any offset agreement will be defined in negotiations between the purchaser and the prime contractor.

Implementation of the proposed sale will require approximately five (5) contractor personnel to support the program in Norway.

There will be no adverse impact on U.S. defense readiness as a result of this proposed sale.

This notice of a potential sale is required by law and does not mean the sale has been concluded.

All questions regarding this proposed Foreign Military Sale should be directed to the State Department's Bureau of Political Military Affairs, Office of Congressional and Public Affairs, pm-cpa@state.gov.
 
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/india-poised-to-retire-iconic-tu-142-fleet-435048/
 
New Zealand – P-8A Aircraft and Associated Support

Media/Public Contact:
pm-cpa@state.gov
Transmittal No:
17-13
WASHINGTON, Apr. 28, 2017 - The State Department has made a determination approving a possible Foreign Military Sale to New Zealand for P-8A aircraft and associated support. The estimated cost is $1.46 billion. The Defense Security Cooperation Agency delivered the required certification notifying Congress of this possible sale on April 27, 2017.

New Zealand has requested the potential sale of up to four (4) P-8A Patrol Aircraft. Each includes: commercial engines, Tactical Open Mission Software (TOMS), Electro-Optical (EO) and Infrared (IR) MX-20HD, AN/AAQ-2(V)1 Acoustic System, AN/APY-10 Radar, ALQ-240 Electronic Support Measures. Also included are eight (8) Multifunctional Information Distribution System Joint Tactical Radio System (MIDS JTRS); five (5) Guardian Laser Transmitter Assemblies (GLTA) for the AN/AAQ-24(V)N; five (5) System Processors for AN/AAQ-24(V)N; thirty (30) AN/AAR-54 Missile Warning Sensors for the AN/AAQ-24(V)N; ten (10) LN-251 with Embedded Global Positioning Systems (GPS)/Inertial Navigations Systems (EGIs); support equipment; operation support systems; maintenance trainer/classrooms; publications; software, engineering, and logistics technical assistance; foreign Liaison officer support, contractor engineering technical services; repair and return; transportation; aircraft ferry; and other associated training, support equipment and services. The total estimated cost is $1.46 billion.

This proposed sale will enhance the foreign policy and national security of the United States by strengthening the security of a Major Non-NATO ally which has been, and continues to be, an important force for political stability within the region. New Zealand is a close ally in the region and an important partner on critical foreign policy and defense issues.

The Government of New Zealand intends to use these defense articles and services to continue its Maritime Surveillance Aircraft (MSA) capability, following retirement of its P-3K maritime patrol aircraft.

The sale will strengthen collective defense and enhance New Zealand’s regional and global allied contributions.

New Zealand has procured and operated U.S. produced P-3 MSA for over 40 years, providing critical capabilities to NATO and coalition maritime operations. New Zealand has maintained a close MSA acquisition and sustainment relationship with the U.S. Navy over this period. The proposed sale will allow New Zealand to recapitalize, modernize and sustain its MSA capability for the next 30 years. As a long-time P-3 operator, New Zealand will have no difficulty transitioning its MSA force to the P-8A and absorbing these aircraft into its armed forces.

The proposed sale of this equipment and support does not alter the basic military balance in the region.

The prime contractor will be The Boeing Company, Seattle, WA. Additional contractors include:
Air Cruisers Co LLC
Arnprior Aerospace, Canada
AVOX Zodiac Aerospace
BAE
Canadian Commercial Corporation (CCC)/EMS
Compass David Clark
DLS/NiaSat, Carlsbad, CA
DRS
Exelis, McLean VA
GC Micro, Petaluma, CA
General Electric, UK
Harris
Joint Electronics
Marin Baker
Northrop Grumman Corp, Falls Church, VA
Pole Zero, Cincinnati, OH
Raytheon, Waltham, MA
Raytheon, UK
Rockwell Collins, Cedar Rapids, IA
Spirit Aero, Wichita, KS
Symmetries Telephonics, Farmingdale, NY
Terma, Arlington, VA
Viking
WESCAM

There are no known offset agreements proposed in connection with this potential sale.

Implementation of this proposed sale will require approximately five (5) contractor representatives to support the program in New Zealand.

There will be no adverse impact on U.S. defense readiness as a result of this proposed sale.

This notice of a potential sale is required by law and does not mean the sale has been concluded.

All questions regarding this proposed Foreign Military Sale should be directed to the State Department's Bureau of Political Military Affairs, Office of Congressional and Public Affairs, pm-cpa@state.gov.

-30-
 
"NAVAIR Flight Ready: P-8A Poseidon: Guardian of the Seas"

NAVAIRSYSCOM

Published on Jan 16, 2018

The P-8A Poseidon takes to the skies. A look at its technology, and the many missions it'll handle for the Navy in the future.

https://youtu.be/lB1GsI9Fq4M
 
​Wellington confirms deal for four P-8A Poseidons

New Zealand’s defence ministry has approved an order for four Boeing P-8A Poseidon maritime patrol aircraft.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/wellington-confirms-deal-for-four-p-8a-poseidons-450023/
 
The P-8 program is likely to be directly impacted by the revelation regarding 737 wing problems. Not good.
 
The P-8 program is likely to be directly impacted by the revelation regarding 737 wing problems. Not good.

Why so? It sounds as though the batch of faulty track parts have been identified and traced to a specific set of commercial aircraft. I haven't seen any indication that any of them ended up in the Navy P-8s. But even if they did, it's a pretty simple fix to replace the tracks.
 

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