Boeing P-8A Poseidon (737-800ERX) MMA (Multi-mission Maritime Aircraft)

Grey Havoc

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I thought the AN/ASQ-508A wasn't supposed to become operational on their aircraft until at least much later this year?
 

TomcatViP

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That would explain the lack of any complaints! ;)

But are you sure of that, I can't read trace of such a major lack of capability?

Edit:
Doesn't seems to be that one fitted on P-8i

CAE seems to mention another system:
 

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Grey Havoc

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I think they were mentioning it as one of the customers for CAE's MAD products in general, rather than as one of the applications for the MAD-XR (which seems to be primarily aimed at the ASW helicopter market, at least for now).
 

FighterJock

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A shame that Boeing has had to close the factory's due to the Covid-19 virus, lets hope that it will only be for a short while, and that they can get the factory's can get back up and running as soon as possible when the crisis is over.
 

Grey Havoc

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AN/AWW-14(V)

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one of the Navy's SBIR


The Boeing Co., Seattle, Washington, is awarded a $7,039,596 against previously issued basic ordering agreement. This order procures non-recurring engineering for the design, fabrication and correction of deficiencies required for the delivery and installation of retrofit kits for Navy P-8A aircraft with Increment 3 ECP 6 capabilities. The P-8A ECP 6 provides a significant modification to the baseline aircraft, installing new airframe racks, radomes, antennas, sensors and wiring, while incorporating a new combat system suite with an improved computer processing and security architecture capability at the higher than secret level, a wide band satellite communication system, an anti-submarine warfare signal intelligence capability, a minotaur track management system and additional communications and acoustics systems to enhance search, detection and targeting capabilities. Work is expected to be complete by May 2021

 

GTX

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TomS

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Australia only buying two more P-8A's taking the total to 14? I would have thought that Australia would have bought more.

It's the largest purchase outside of the US, and these 14 aircraft plus up to 5 MQ-4C Triton (3 ordered so far) are replacing 18 AP-3C. So the net result is a similar or possibly even slightly larger number of much more capable aircraft. This seems like a significant upgrade overall.
 
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FighterJock

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Australia only buying two more P-8A's taking the total to 14? I would have thought that Australia would have bought more.

It's the largest purchase outside of the US, and these 14 aircraft plus up to 5 MQ-4C Triton (3 ordered so far) are replacing 18 AP-3C. So the net result is a similar or possibly even slightly larger number of much more capable aircraft. This seems like a significant upgrade overall.

Forgot Australia were buying the MQ-4 Triton as well as the P-8A. Thanks for the info TomS.
 

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Australia is also getting MQ-9Bs as well which will also have a Maritime Surveillance capability as well. In fact, if you take a systems of systems type of view rather than just individual platforms, you will see a quite capable package with the ADF having or in the process of acquiring a range of very capable ISREW systems. The list includes the E-7A Wedgetail, P-8A Poseidon, MQ-4C Triton, MC-55A Peregrine, EA-18G Growler and MQ-9B SkyGuardian. There is also the Jindalee Operational Radar Network (JORN) over-the-horizon radar as well.
 

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Germany requests 5 P-8A through FMS:
The United States' State Department approved a possible Foreign Military Sale (FMS) to Germany of Boeing P-8A Maritime Patrol Aircraft (MPA) and associated support, and related equipment, for an estimated cost of $1.77 billion.
 
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AN/AWW-14(V)

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An Air Test and Evaluation Squadron (VX) 20 P-8A Poseidon successfully completed an airworthiness test of a pod-mounted radio frequency countermeasure (RFCM) prototype at the Naval Air Warfare Center Aircraft Division (NAWCAD) Atlantic Test Ranges, March 12.

The first-of-its-kind radio frequency defense decoy could allow the P-8A to thwart enemy radio frequency missile attacks.

“This has the potential to be a game-changer for protecting the warfighter,” said Capt. Eric Gardner, program manager for the Maritime Patrol and Reconnaissance Aircraft Program Office (PMA-290). “We continue to look for ways to enhance capabilities that allow the fleet to be successful.”

Getting the pod into testing, in just over a year, took a complete team effort.

Constantly looking for upgrades to the P-8A, PMA-290 set out to find a solution to a potential threat from surface-to-air radio frequency missiles.

Outlining their needs and running lead on the project, PMA-290 brought in the Advanced Tactical Aircraft Protection Systems Program Office (PMA-272), the Rapid Prototyping, Experimentation & Demonstration (RPED) team, and the NAWCAD Aircraft Prototype Systems Division (APSD) to get the ball rolling.

The RPED team supported APSD in designing the RFCM pod, which integrated the proven AN/ALE-55 Fiber Optic Towed Decoy from PMA-272 into a shell. The team developed the shell design based on the certified AGM-84 Harpoon missile, and then incorporated unique tracks and housing to fit and deploy the decoy.

By employing the assistant secretary of the Navy for research, development and acquisition’s delegation of other transactions authority (OTA) for prototype projects, PMA-290 and NAWCAD were able to complete a one-of-a-kind contract with BAE Systems to develop the RFCM pod’s additional internal equipment suite. The OTA, a non-Federal Acquisition Regulation contracting approach, could potentially allow this critical self-protection technology to transition from prototype to fleet capability in much less time than a traditional effort.

APSD and BAE leveraged the established AN/ALE-55 electrical design to accommodate the suite’s installation.

“A lot of the challenge and effort went into designing, to our best estimates, for what BAE was expected to put in the pod,” said Michael Hansell, the leading APSD engineer for the project. “We had to adapt and redesign rapidly. We worked as fast as possible to support PMA-290 and RPED to make sure we could pivot and adjust to meet established timelines.”

Constant tweaks were needed as the teams continued to hone in on a capable design.

“Michael Hansell and his team’s flexibility and willingness to go above and beyond, to work through issues and prepare for BAE, was key in getting [the pod design and build] done in a timely manner,” said James Sherman, the APSD project lead.

The Naval Innovative Science & Engineering (NISE) program funded the project, which provided the means to conceptualize, prototype, build, and test this new capability for the Navy.

This funding accelerated the design and manufacturing cycle for the prototype to just under six months. The expedited developmental process supports the rapid prototyping of new and developing technologies and provides the resources to find solutions and incorporate improvements to fill capability gaps in the fleet faster.

The teams were also able to utilize PMA-272’s F/A-18 lab equipment to speed up the timeline.

All this teamwork culminated in the successful airworthiness test with VX-20.

“This shows that when we identify a need and work rapidly as a team we can bring a viable solution to test that has the ability to greatly impact the warfighter,” said Lt. Cmdr. Mike Marschall, PMA-290 weapons and rapid capabilities co-team lead.

Following the test, the pod went to Naval Air Weapons Station China Lake, California where it successfully completed effectiveness testing, March 21-26. It will now continue to be tested at a system level leading to platform integration through planned capability fielding phases.

PMA-290 manages the acquisition, development, support, and delivery of the Navy's Maritime Patrol and Reconnaissance Aircraft.

 

aonestudio

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Patrol Squadron FOUR (VP-4) successfully conducted a coordinated missile launch with VP-40 using two Air to Surface Missile (AGM-84D) Harpoons against a target barge off the coast of Norway during exercise At-Sea Demo/Formidable Shield (ASD/FS), May 31, 2021.

This marked the first use of Harpoon missiles by P-8A Poseidons in the European theater.


View: https://twitter.com/USNavyEurope/status/1401618266041339905


 
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TomcatViP

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The U.S. government’s offer for the aircraft, dated April 5, comes in at 1.1 billion. Taxes, training, spares and support make up remainder of the request to lawmakers, according to the document.
Notice how the total amount is in $.
 

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TomcatViP

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Notice that with 30% more airframe and roughly the same years in service, the fleet of P-8 logged 3 time more flying hours than the A400M, a far less sophisticated platform.
 

Grey Havoc

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I'd say there is going to be some heavy duty behind the scenes political manoeuvring to try and get this decision reversed or 'paused'.
 

Hobbes

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Notice that with 30% more airframe and roughly the same years in service, the fleet of P-8 logged 3 time more flying hours than the A400M, a far less sophisticated platform.

Isn't that inevitable given their roles?

MPA: Patrol aircraft. You expect them to be flown continuously.

Transport: flown when there's something to transport.

Airframe availability/serviceability would be a better metric for comparison.
 

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I'd say there is going to be some heavy duty behind the scenes political manoeuvring to try and get this decision reversed or 'paused'.

Boeing won't like that at all if Germany reverses the decision, considering that the French-German joint MPA is just a paper design for now.
 

Moose

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I'd say there is going to be some heavy duty behind the scenes political manoeuvring to try and get this decision reversed or 'paused'.
I think the maneuvering already happened and the Airbus MPA came up short. Its not like France hasn't noticed this until today. The German parliament wouldn't have greenlit this without the Airbus advocates having their say.
 

Grey Havoc

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The German parliament wouldn't have greenlit this without the Airbus advocates having their say.
Given the chaos that the parliament along with the German political establishment in general is currently in, I have to wonder about that.
 

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Remnants of Dale Brown anyone? Yep here is how RB-8 all Arsenal missile carry8ng version could be.

Something about this just doesn't click for me, I'm all for more P-8s and as a JSTAR replacement too. but what exactly is Tyler gushing about? The Navy is already expanding their P-8s armament capability for LRASM/JASM and more.
P-8 stripped of all its maritime patrol and anti-submarine warfare gear
Would that really free up so much internal volume that he claims? He then circles back and boasts that the sonobuoys could be used to drop drones and loitering munitions. So what volumetric ASW gear is there to remove if he's keeping the buoy launchers and racks?
Why bother ripping out the APY-10 for some dainty fighter radar that would need to be flight tested and certified for a supposed benefit?
I can't see how these structural and electronic changes would save any money, he proposes a decent idea and then gold plates it for minimal gain.

More useful idea: Activate another C-5 squadron or two in the Reserve force for pallet launched ballistic and cruise missiles.
Joint USAF funding for another 50-75 P-8s in similar vain to the 390th EA-18 squadron which provides Air Force guys for Navy expeditionary electronic squadrons. If we're going Joint from top to bottom, let's practice what we preach and share some damn resources.
 

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Some news regarding the Very Light Weight Torpedo development (VLWT) at Northrop Grumman :
The torpedo is fitted with a parachute to reduce the shock of impact with the water. The VLWT also could be fitted with a glide wing kit similar to the one on Boeing’s HAAWC (High-Altitude Anti-submarine Weapon Concept), which is in development to extend the launch range and altitude as well as precision guidance for the Mk54 torpedo.

Portner said the VLWT also could be deployed from a vessel such as a littoral combat ship by way of an unmanned surface vehicle or unmanned underwater vehicle. He said the light weight of the CRAW, compared with the MK54, would enable a platform to carry more weapons the same distance or the same number of weapons to a greater range or endurance.

Portner said in a December interview the Navy already has demonstrated that the legacy Surface Vessel Torpedo Tubes that fire Mk46 and Mk54 light-weight torpedoes could be fitted with internal sleeves to accommodate the smaller-diameter VLWT, but a new launcher could be developed to house a larger number of VLWTs. He also said one or more VLWTs could be fitted to an Anti-Submarine Rocket in place of a MK54 torpedo if the Navy decided to do proceed with that.

 

TomS

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Remnants of Dale Brown anyone? Yep here is how RB-8 all Arsenal missile carry8ng version could be.

Something about this just doesn't click for me, I'm all for more P-8s and as a JSTAR replacement too. but what exactly is Tyler gushing about? The Navy is already expanding their P-8s armament capability for LRASM/JASM and more.
P-8 stripped of all its maritime patrol and anti-submarine warfare gear
Would that really free up so much internal volume that he claims? He then circles back and boasts that the sonobuoys could be used to drop drones and loitering munitions. So what volumetric ASW gear is there to remove if he's keeping the buoy launchers and racks?
Why bother ripping out the APY-10 for some dainty fighter radar that would need to be flight tested and certified for a supposed benefit?
I can't see how these structural and electronic changes would save any money, he proposes a decent idea and then gold plates it for minimal gain.

More useful idea: Activate another C-5 squadron or two in the Reserve force for pallet launched ballistic and cruise missiles.
Joint USAF funding for another 50-75 P-8s in similar vain to the 390th EA-18 squadron which provides Air Force guys for Navy expeditionary electronic squadrons. If we're going Joint from top to bottom, let's practice what we preach and share some damn resources.

Well, there is a ton of acoustic and other processing gear on the upper deck of the P-8 aft of the crew workspace (5-6 rack bays, several crew stations, etc.). Gutting that all out would surely save some weight. Not sure you could add more fuel, though. The below-deck space is pretty well full up, between the existing aux fuel tanks and the weapon bay. Adding fuel above the deck seems improbable for various reasons.

So, you get a plane that carries 4 JASSM and 5 JDAM or 20 SDB plus many Griffin or other tube-launched light weapons or drones. Not terrible. But also not exactly survivable. Taking his SDB anti-ship scenario, I'd be really nervous taking a glorified airliner within 40 miles of a modern surface combatant, ECM or no.
 

shin_getter

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So, you get a plane that carries 4 JASSM and 5 JDAM or 20 SDB plus many Griffin or other tube-launched light weapons or drones. Not terrible. But also not exactly survivable. Taking his SDB anti-ship scenario, I'd be really nervous taking a glorified airliner within 40 miles of a modern surface combatant, ECM or no.
The main use case imo would be to replace B-1 and AC-130 in heavy persistent CAS, assuming a stripped down version would have airliner type operating costs. To think all those supersonic penetration airframe hours burned for that mission....
 
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