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Boeing P-8A Poseidon (737-800ERX) MMA (Multi-mission Maritime Aircraft)

CJGibson

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Geoff_B said:
FighterJock said:
So when will the RAF be getting some to replace the much missed Nimrod?
Most likely post 2020 if they go with it, i suspect they will do a requirement in the 2015 SDSR and probably come up with a mixed solution like Australia with a force of P-8 and Global Hawks or similar UAV
Don't be daft Geoff. They'll order 12 off-the-shelf Airbus A319s, hang four engines on the wings, or stick one of a different type in the tail, cut loads of holes in the airframe to accommodate old British kit, rewrite the entire software suite in COBOL, change the requirement so that, due to the newly discovered phenomenon of ETOPS, only two engines are required, cut the order to 8, then after 10 years discover its costs have overrun spectacularly, cancel it and buy 6 mothballed Aussie Orions.
 

Stargazer2006

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CJGibson said:
They'll order 12 off-the-shelf Airbus A319s, hang four engines on the wings, or stick one of a different type in the tail, cut loads of holes in the airframe to accommodate old British kit, rewrite the entire software suite in COBOL, change the requirement so that, due to the newly discovered phenomenon of ETOPS, only two engines are required, cut the order to 8, then after 10 years discover its costs have overrun spectacularly, cancel it and buy 6 mothballed Aussie Orions.

It's great to see we have such apt experts of military procurement among our distinguished members! ;D
 

Thorvic

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Seriously though the MPA requirement is up for review in 2015 we have had 5 years of a capability gap with the skill levels being maintained via Project Seedcorn to place UK MPA specialists with allied forces MPA capability. Funding for seedcorn expires after 2015 so they have to make a decision to cancel the lot and say farewell to the capability, fund seedcorn for another 5 years and let the next SDSR decide in 2020 or implement a project to restore our MPA capability in one form or another. P-8A is the best case, would like option, none is the worst case and any number of ad-hoc solutions will be in the offing between these two.
 

CJGibson

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I was being serious. Jokes about MoD procurement are no laughing matter.

See:

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,15269.msg179684.html#msg179684

reply 11

And the 4-engine Mini-Bus MR turned up again in the SR(A).420/RMPA discussions.

Chris
 

Triton

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Published on Jul 15, 2014

The Unites States Navy's P-8A Poseidon maritime patrol aircraft took flight over the Farnborough audience.

http://youtu.be/kQbYoBoRjQU
 

TomS

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The US aircraft don't have MAD.
 

LowObservable

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MAD was ditched because the Navy expects to do the majority of its future ASW work from high altitude (>15000 feet). Whether this is because the new multistatic active coherent (MAC) acoustics system and the radar work so well, or because the P-8A has mediocre endurance at low altitude, or a little of both, is not clear. It was advertised as a weight-saving measure but MAD is not very heavy.
 

AeroFranz

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For a while there was a program aimed at designing an air-droppable UAV (WBBL, Wing and Bomb Bay Launched Unmanned Air Vehicle). Two companies were competing, Piasecki and someone else, can't remember [these guys http://www.acuitytx.com/pdf/AT-3%20Press%20Release.pdf].


Here's the Piasecki Turais:

http://www.navaldrones.com/Turais.html


I remember vaguely that one of the payloads was MAD. I think the weapons bay of the P-8 was made shorter in depth, which also impacted the similar HAAWC weapons deployment program.
http://www.gizmag.com/go/7344/
Maybe the Turais doesn't fit in there anymore? that would still leave the wing racks open. Anyway, I haven't heard anything about it in years. I'm not sure that the whole concept of an expendable UAV carrying expensive sensors makes sense.
 

TomS

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There is a fairly recent Navy SBIR for a small expendable UAV with a low-cost MAD that could be launched from sonobouy tubes. Target was less than 39 pounds (in its storage canister) and with a cost of less than $5,000 when purchased in quantity.

http://www.navysbir.com/n14_1/N141-014.htm

Boeing was offering a larger vehicle called MagEagle - a version of the Compressed Carriage ScanEagle. Two would fit in a launch pod that would hang on one of the P-8A's underwing pylons and fly for up to 24 hours before notionally being recovered on a surface ship or land base.

http://www.boeing.com/advertising/bma/se/se_01.html
 

Spook

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Thank you so much everyone, for your valuable information.
 

Grey Havoc

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http://edition.cnn.com/2015/05/20/politics/south-china-sea-navy-flight/index.html
 

bring_it_on

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The Navy's P-8 Poseidon Spotted Packing Mysterious New Pod

http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/the-navys-p-8-poseidon-spotted-packing-mysterious-new-p-1718488424


 

Boxman

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Given the MAD boom, might this be a P-8I with the attached antenna farm serving a similar function as the ELINT "tray" (for lack of a better term) that is mounted above the cockpit of Indian Navy's IL-38s?
 

GTX

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Well, N782DS is a P-8I for the Indian Navy. A detachable ELINT/SIGINT package would make sense...not just for Indian P-8s.
 

Triton

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"MoD sinks £2bn sub-hunter jet deal"
Mark Hookham and Tim Ripley Published: 1 November 2015

Source:
http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/uk_news/article1627241.ece?CMP=OTH-gnws-standard-2015_10_31

THE Ministry of Defence is understood to have dropped a £2bn plan to buy a fleet of US-made submarine-hunting jets for the RAF.

The proposed purchase of up to nine P-8 Poseidon aircraft was expected to be the centrepiece of the government’s forthcoming defence review, but sources say the project has been shelved after ministers decided the aircraft were “fiendishly expensive”.

The move has raised fears that Britain’s four Vanguard nuclear deterrent submarines and the navy’s new £6bn aircraft carriers could be inadequately protected.

Senior retired RAF officers argued earlier this year that Britain’s nuclear deterrent has been left vulnerable after plans to update a fleet of Nimrod submarine-hunting aircraft were axed in 2010.

The defence review, due to be published later this month, was widely expected to announce a replacement for the Nimrod, with Boeing’s P-8, which carries torpedoes, depth charges and anti-ship missiles, regarded as the frontrunner.
 

Moose

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That's surprising, there were a lot of "it's a done deal" type leaks in the past few weeks.
 

Flyaway

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Don't tell me they are going to waste yet more time looking for a cheaper alternative. The longer this goes on the more likely it is they will persuade themselves they can do without filling this role.
 

sferrin

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Flyaway said:
Don't tell me they are going to waste yet more time looking for a cheaper alternative. The longer this goes on the more likely it is they will persuade themselves they can do without filling this role.
The part that blows my mind is they're talking about buying a whole NINE aircraft. NINE! How many did they have during the Cold War covering the GIUK Gap? A hundred? More?
 

TomS

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Much less. There were 46 Nimrod MR.1s built. Of those, 35 became MR.2s and 3 became R.1s.
 

CJGibson

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Only nine Nimrod MRA.4s were on order at The End. Started off at twenty-odd.

Chris
 

marauder2048

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sferrin said:
Flyaway said:
Don't tell me they are going to waste yet more time looking for a cheaper alternative. The longer this goes on the more likely it is they will persuade themselves they can do without filling this role.
The part that blows my mind is they're talking about buying a whole NINE aircraft. NINE! How many did they have during the Cold War covering the GIUK Gap? A hundred? More?
Is this just a consequence of the peculiar arrangement where the RAF operates the MPAs which are intended to protect assets
that the RAF is institutionally hostile towards?
 

sferrin

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TomS said:
Much less. There were 46 Nimrod MR.1s built. Of those, 35 became MR.2s and 3 became R.1s.
That's surprising. The USN use to operate hundreds of P-3s. Looks like we're down to about 120. No SOSUS. No Vikings. Good thing the Cold War is over I guess. /sarc
 

red admiral

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marauder2048 said:
Is this just a consequence of the peculiar arrangement where the RAF operates the MPAs which are intended to protect assets
that the RAF is institutionally hostile towards?
More just that there is little money and P-8 is very expensive. I don't see Navy Command clamouring to cut ship numbers to fund this capability (as they are allowed to do so).
 

marauder2048

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sferrin said:
TomS said:
Much less. There were 46 Nimrod MR.1s built. Of those, 35 became MR.2s and 3 became R.1s.
That's surprising. The USN use to operate hundreds of P-3s. Looks like we're down to about 120. No SOSUS. No Vikings. Good thing the Cold War is over I guess. /sarc
No Vikings in US service; refurbed S-3s might be in ROKN and misc. service if LM's projections are correct.
 

TomS

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marauder2048 said:
No Vikings in US service; refurbed S-3s might be in ROKN and misc. service if LM's projections are correct.
I'll believe that when I see it.
 

The Artist

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Just a little diversion. last week, a P-8 shot 5 (that I saw) touch-and-goes at the St Louis Downtown Airport. Maybe they were checking out the MiG 15 that was parked outside Hangar 1.
 

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Flyaway

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Perhaps the whole thing is the MOD's way of playing hardball with Boeing over the price.
 

JFC Fuller

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Flyaway said:
Perhaps the whole thing is the MOD's way of playing hardball with Boeing over the price.
The journalist who came out with the story doesn't have the best reputation and this story has not been confirmed by any other reporter. It may be true, it may not, it may be partly true, but we should know in the next few weeks either way.
 

TomS

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Hood said:
Looks like that article has stoked plenty of speculation as to what might be acquired and how. If cost is the major issue then I suspect a C295 or G650-based MPA is more likely.
If it's price, then the C295 would seem to be the only option, really. A G650 (Or Bombardier equivalent) airframe isn't significantly cheaper than a B737 and integrating new mission systems into it would likely cost more than buying the P-8 off the shelf.
 

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Kawasaki P1 as a dark horse contender? Another already-integrated airframe, and if the Japanese are willing to let them go at incremental cost rather than amortizing in development, it could be cost-effective...
 

Triton

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The Sunday Mail gets it wrong:

"UK to obtain nine P-8 maritime patrol aircraft"
23 November, 2015 BY: Greg Waldron Singapore

Source:
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/uk-to-obtain-nine-p-8-maritime-patrol-aircraft-419371/
 

marauder2048

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So what's the next domino to fall? Canada? France (!) ?
 
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