Boeing hypersonic demonstrator model at AIAA SciTech 2018

Flyaway

ACCESS: Above Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2015
Messages
7,030
Reaction score
6,027
Now this is an unexpected development.

Boeing Unveils Hypersonic ‘Son-Of-Blackbird’ Contender

ORLANDO, Florida—Amid continuing signs of a significant upswing in U.S. hypersonic research and development, Boeing has revealed first details of a reusable Mach 5-plus demonstrator vehicle design that could pave the way for a future high-speed strike and reconnaissance ...

Although initially independently funded by Boeing, development of the hypersonic vehicle concept is continuing under Darpa’s Advanced Full Range Engine (AFRE) initiative and a closely-related turbine-based combined cycle (TBCC) flight demonstration concept study run by the U.S. Air Force Research Laboratory. Boeing’s engine partner for the concept is Orbital ATK, which in September 2017 was awarded a $21.4 million contract for the AFRE program. Boeing began work on the AFRL TBCC flight demonstrator concept study, with Orbital ATK as a subcontractor, in 2016.

“The propulsion system determines the length of the vehicle,” says Tom Smith, Boeing Research and Technology chief hypersonic aircraft designer. Although Boeing declines to discuss specific aspects of the design, the broad inlets and wide lower fuselage-mounted nacelle suggest the turbine and DMRJ in each TBCC engine are housed side-by-side rather than arranged in an over-under configuration.

The inward-turning inlets are positioned to capture the initial shockwave from the nose of the vehicle, while the sharply swept forebody chines are contoured into the relatively large-span delta wing to provide waveriding capability at hypersonic speed and sufficient lift for landing and takeoff at subsonic speed. The term waverider refers to a design in which the vehicle rides the shockwave attached to the leading edge, thus benefiting from lower induced drag. “As the narrow chine transitions to the wing, that produces a good vortex, which you care about at low speed,” Smith says.

http://m.aviationweek.com/defense/boeing-unveils-hypersonic-son-blackbird-contender
 

fightingirish

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Messages
2,550
Reaction score
1,249
Re: Boeing hypersonic demonstrator

Flyaway said:
Now this is an unexpected development.

Boeing Unveils Hypersonic ‘Son-Of-Blackbird’ Contender

ORLANDO, Florida—Amid continuing signs of a significant upswing in U.S. hypersonic research and development, Boeing has revealed first details of a reusable Mach 5-plus demonstrator vehicle design that could pave the way for a future high-speed strike and reconnaissance ...

http://m.aviationweek.com/defense/boeing-unveils-hypersonic-son-blackbird-contender
Here a picture from the aboved source.
 

Attachments

  • 20170110_Boeing_Hypersonic_UAV.jpeg
    20170110_Boeing_Hypersonic_UAV.jpeg
    129.4 KB · Views: 761

Flyaway

ACCESS: Above Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2015
Messages
7,030
Reaction score
6,027
Re: Boeing hypersonic demonstrator

What’s striking is how similar it is LM’s design. I suppose function informs form in a similar way.
 

Ogami musashi

ACCESS: Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2006
Messages
317
Reaction score
24
Re: Boeing hypersonic demonstrator

Upper side from Guy Norris and Graham Warwick

https://twitter.com/AvWeekGuy/status/951176880304082945
https://twitter.com/TheWoracle/status/951211721917632514
 

Attachments

  • DTNCUutX0AAjHbu.jpg
    DTNCUutX0AAjHbu.jpg
    322.1 KB · Views: 740
  • DTNiBL5W4AE1-Xq.jpg
    DTNiBL5W4AE1-Xq.jpg
    257.8 KB · Views: 663

sferrin

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2011
Messages
14,741
Reaction score
3,708
Re: Boeing hypersonic demonstrator

Assuming this is anything more than a pretty model for trade shows, I wonder if it has any McDonnell Douglas lineage.
 

flateric

ACCESS: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2006
Messages
9,305
Reaction score
1,885
sferrin said:
Assuming this is anything more than a pretty model for trade shows
I doubt that looking at photos
 

Attachments

  • DTGXPF~3_crop.jpg
    DTGXPF~3_crop.jpg
    119.9 KB · Views: 647

DrRansom

I really should change my personal text
Joined
Dec 15, 2012
Messages
557
Reaction score
39
The major difference compared to the Lockheed design is that the forebody looks much more like a waverider.

From the two designs, it appears that both teams struggled with low-speed and transonic flight.
 

sferrin

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2011
Messages
14,741
Reaction score
3,708
DrRansom said:
From the two designs, it appears that both teams struggled with low-speed and transonic flight.

What indicates that?
 

DrRansom

I really should change my personal text
Joined
Dec 15, 2012
Messages
557
Reaction score
39
sferrin said:
What indicates that?

Area-ruling, in contradiction to all hypersonic glider designs, and the mention of low-speed vortices from the chine and wing, specifically mentioned in the interview.

Also, I remember the Boeing hypersonics vehicle guy mentioning transonic acceleration as a design constraint.
 

Flyaway

ACCESS: Above Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2015
Messages
7,030
Reaction score
6,027
DrRansom said:
sferrin said:
What indicates that?

Area-ruling, in contradiction to all hypersonic glider designs, and the mention of low-speed vortices from the chine and wing, specifically mentioned in the interview.

Also, I remember the Boeing hypersonics vehicle guy mentioning transonic acceleration as a design constraint.

Who do you think has the advantage in what now looks like a competition LM or Boeing?
 

DrRansom

I really should change my personal text
Joined
Dec 15, 2012
Messages
557
Reaction score
39
Boeing's design looks better, but for advantage? We're so far away from having certain key technologies ready that one can hardly tell when this project will go forward.
 

Flyaway

ACCESS: Above Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2015
Messages
7,030
Reaction score
6,027
DrRansom said:
Boeing's design looks better, but for advantage? We're so far away from having certain key technologies ready that one can hardly tell when this project will go forward.

Most of the technology is here just in different places. It’s more a case of getting the disparate parts to work together as anything else.
 

DrRansom

I really should change my personal text
Joined
Dec 15, 2012
Messages
557
Reaction score
39
Flyaway said:
DrRansom said:
Boeing's design looks better, but for advantage? We're so far away from having certain key technologies ready that one can hardly tell when this project will go forward.

Most of the technology is here just in different places. It’s more a case of getting the disparate parts to work together as anything else.

A key technology for the airplane is totally unproven, part of it is unproven at scale. There are other, less obvious but still critical, gaps as well.
 

Flyaway

ACCESS: Above Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2015
Messages
7,030
Reaction score
6,027
DrRansom said:
Flyaway said:
DrRansom said:
Boeing's design looks better, but for advantage? We're so far away from having certain key technologies ready that one can hardly tell when this project will go forward.

Most of the technology is here just in different places. It’s more a case of getting the disparate parts to work together as anything else.

A key technology for the airplane is totally unproven, part of it is unproven at scale. There are other, less obvious but still critical, gaps as well.

The only problem with that proposition is the assumption that we know everything that’s been developed for these projects, which by their very natures seems unlikely.

New article with a Boeing illustration of the concept.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/aviation/amp15070935/boeing-hypersonic-concept-replace-sr-71-blackbird/
 

Attachments

  • boing-hypersonic2-1515787473.jpg
    boing-hypersonic2-1515787473.jpg
    39.7 KB · Views: 405

sferrin

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2011
Messages
14,741
Reaction score
3,708
DrRansom said:
Flyaway said:
DrRansom said:
Boeing's design looks better, but for advantage? We're so far away from having certain key technologies ready that one can hardly tell when this project will go forward.

Most of the technology is here just in different places. It’s more a case of getting the disparate parts to work together as anything else.

A key technology for the airplane is totally unproven, part of it is unproven at scale. There are other, less obvious but still critical, gaps as well.

The only way you get from "unproven" to "proven" is to build hardware and test. Waiting around for a miracle to land a "proven" hypersonic aircraft on a silver platter without doing anything will get you nowhere.
 

DrRansom

I really should change my personal text
Joined
Dec 15, 2012
Messages
557
Reaction score
39
sferrin said:
The only way you get from "unproven" to "proven" is to build hardware and test. Waiting around for a miracle to land a "proven" hypersonic aircraft on a silver platter without doing anything will get you nowhere.

You misunderstand me, there are unproven technologies so we can't assess which project is ahead of the other.

However, the development program is vital as it shows what technologies need to be developed, a much better situation than the past where research was thrown without any idea what was necessary.

Heck, I think they should be going faster, make rocket boosted scramjet recon drone in parallel and faster than the combined cycle aircraft. The pentagon should plan for developing a hypersonic system every year to push development that fast, think of 1930s or 1950s development pace. Much if the problems will only be clarified and solved by building and deploying.
 

flateric

ACCESS: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2006
Messages
9,305
Reaction score
1,885
https://www.facebook.com/Boeing/videos/1964059776955883/
http://www.boeing.com/features/2018/01/hypersonics-01-18.page
 

Attachments

  • 27164576_1960853030609891_9081759735619450318_o.jpg
    27164576_1960853030609891_9081759735619450318_o.jpg
    254.3 KB · Views: 424

Flyaway

ACCESS: Above Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2015
Messages
7,030
Reaction score
6,027
Hypersonic Race Heats With Boeing Reusable Demonstrator Concept

Boeing is raising the stakes in the accelerating race for U.S. hypersonic leadership by positioning itself to develop a potential future Mach 5-plus strike-and-reconnaissance aircraft. The move, which was signaled by the unexpected unveiling of a reusable hypersonic demonstrator concept vehicle at an aerospace science and research conference in Florida in early January, directly challenges Lockheed Martin. In 2013, Lockheed revealed plans to develop a Mach 6 successor to the long-retired ...

http://m.aviationweek.com/defense/hypersonic-race-heats-boeing-reusable-demonstrator-concept
 

fredymac

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
Dec 14, 2009
Messages
2,157
Reaction score
730
Facebook video presentation. The business model isn't discussed but basically it boils down to someone else pays for the research. No venture capital means Boeing is still treating this as a "vehicle" for government contracts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H79Yj6Ja1E8
 

Archibald

ACCESS: Above Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2006
Messages
7,333
Reaction score
6,325
To quote the Monty Python (about Camelot) "it's only a model"
 
Top