Boeing F-15EX/QA and related variants

[philip.morten]

I have a question concerning the Pratt&Whitney F100 and the General Electric engines and that is where exactly are they made in the US? I've tried looking on the wikipedia but the articles concerning their makers are vague as to where they're actually built.

Any US Government contract award will tell you what state the work will be done in (usually broken down by percentage).

Would you please elaborate as I haven't looked at any such contracts, so where are these power-plants produced?

Fom https://www.defense.gov/Newsroom/Contracts/Contract/Article/2707824/source/GovDelivery

Raytheon Technologies Corp., East Hartford, Connecticut, has been awarded a $212,053,200 delivery order against the F100 production program’s indefinite-delivery/indefinite-quantity contract for F100-PW-229 install engines. Work will be performed in East Hartford, Connecticut

 

[sferrin]

I have a question concerning the Pratt&Whitney F100 and the General Electric engines and that is where exactly are they made in the US? I've tried looking on the wikipedia but the articles concerning their makers are vague as to where they're actually built.

Any US Government contract award will tell you what state the work will be done in (usually broken down by percentage).

Would you please elaborate as I haven't looked at any such contracts, so where are these power-plants produced?

Fom https://www.defense.gov/Newsroom/Contracts/Contract/Article/2707824/source/GovDelivery

Raytheon Technologies Corp., East Hartford, Connecticut, has been awarded a $212,053,200 delivery order against the F100 production program’s indefinite-delivery/indefinite-quantity contract for F100-PW-229 install engines. Work will be performed in East Hartford, Connecticut

Does Raytheon own P&W now?

 

[TomS]

Does Raytheon own P&W now?

Technically, United Technologies (which owns PW) bought Raytheon back in 2019, and then merged PW into Raytheon. In practice, yeah. UT sold off its non-defense businesses (Otis and Carrier) in the process of buying Raytheon, so the only major parts left were PW and Collins.

 

[DystopicProcurement]

I have a question concerning the Pratt&Whitney F100 and the General Electric engines and that is where exactly are they made in the US? I've tried looking on the wikipedia but the articles concerning their makers are vague as to where they're actually built.

It's my understanding that the GE fighter engines are made in Lynn, Mass with the P&W in Hartford, CT. In both cases, the parts within the engines themselves are made all over the country.

 

[RavenOne]

Well after 3 abortive attempts to cross the pond this week the first four QA delivery flight arrived in sunny Suffolk - RAF Mildenhall yesterday so here are my photos below.

Cheers

 

[aonestudio]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1469285136604749836

View: https://twitter.com/CaricaMil/status/1469285136604749836

 

[elmayerle]

I have a question concerning the Pratt&Whitney F100 and the General Electric engines and that is where exactly are they made in the US? I've tried looking on the wikipedia but the articles concerning their makers are vague as to where they're actually built.

It's my understanding that the GE fighter engines are made in Lynn, Mass with the P&W in Hartford, CT. In both cases, the parts within the engines themselves are made all over the country.

Not exactly. P&W engines are built in Hartford, CT. The GE engines built in West Lynn, MA are the "small" military engines (T700, F414, et al.) while the large Ge engines are built in Cincinatti, OH (F110, F118, large civil engines, et al.)
.

 

[helmutkohl]

summary: Japan has allocated roughly 397 billion yen for a highly advanced F-15 upgrade
however cuts were made including the integration of a long range ASHM

空自F15戦闘機 改修費約3970億円に削減 来年度予算案に計上へ | NHKニュース

【NHK】費用が大幅に膨らんだ航空自衛隊のF15戦闘機の改修をめぐり、防衛省は、アメリカ側との交渉の結果、さらに10億円費用を圧縮…

www3.nhk.or.jp

 

[RavenOne]

Unfortunaely from that last batch, one of the QA went tech so it stayed and then another four ship delivery came through Mildenhall at lunchtime. SO here are m photos below of the remaining QA from the first batch carrying a flight test with unetricted climb then the second four ship arriving.

Cheers

 

[TomcatViP]

In addition to the those changes, the 2022 NDAA contains numerous provisions related to the Air Force fleet. It funds the service’s request to procure 48 new F-35s and adds five F-15EXs to an initial request for 12[...]

So, 17 EX added for 2022

Congress Passes 2022 NDAA, Sending Bill to President Biden - Air Force Magazine

The Senate voted to pass the 2022 National Defense Authorization Act on Dec. 15, continuing Congress's streak of passing an NDAA every year.

www.airforcemag.com

 

[Grey Havoc]

$12 billion deal may bring hundreds of Qatar, US Air Force members to Idaho base

Members of Qatar's air force would live on Mountain Home Air Force Base to learn to fly the newest model of the F-15 fighter jet specially modified for the Persian Gulf state.

www.stripes.com

 

[TomcatViP]

Egypt! (no EX is mentioned but that's my own understanding)

Washington to provide Egypt with F-15 jets, U.S. general says

The top U.S. general for forces in the Middle East said on Tuesday that he believed the United States would provide Egypt with F-15 aircraft.

www.reuters.com

 

[isayyo2]

Egypt! (no EX is mentioned but that's my own understanding)

Replacing their Su-35 order?

 

[TomcatViP]

Those Su-35 might be better :
- a/ off Egyptian air force inventory
- b/ at Russians disposal.

But then, again, with the extra Rafale order, that's a lot of long range twins for the Egyptian air force. The refocus on projection of power is noteworthy.

 

[isayyo2]

But then, again, with the extra Rafale order, that's a lot of long range twins for the Egyptian air force. The refocus on projection of power is noteworthy.

I could see the US doing a similar deal to the Indonesian Block 52ID: donate the F-15's for free and then have the Egyptians pay for the airframe modernization/life extension, pilot training, and munitions.

 

[GTX]

Probably not quite correct but you get the idea:

 

[stealthflanker]

I could see the US doing a similar deal to the Indonesian Block 52ID: donate the F-15's for free and then have the Egyptians pay for the airframe modernization/life extension, pilot training, and munitions.

I'm curious if it could be the case. Back in the day Indonesia did seek used F-15 which turns out to be unavailable. It has to be from US unit or brand new.

Also for Egyptian case tho. I wonder if they would be happy with the deal assuming it "replace" supposedly already paid Su-35's. as F-15C model does not actually match with Su-35 capabilty wise.

 

[GTX]

I'm curious if it could be the case. Back in the day Indonesia did seek used F-15 which turns out to be unavailable. It has to be from US unit or brand new.

New via FMS:

Indonesia – F-15ID Aircraft | Defense Security Cooperation Agency

www.dsca.mil

 

[isayyo2]

I could see the US doing a similar deal to the Indonesian Block 52ID: donate the F-15's for free and then have the Egyptians pay for the airframe modernization/life extension, pilot training, and munitions.

I'm curious if it could be the case. Back in the day Indonesia did seek used F-15 which turns out to be unavailable. It has to be from US unit or brand new.

Also for Egyptian case tho. I wonder if they would be happy with the deal assuming it "replace" supposedly already paid Su-35's. as F-15C model does not actually match with Su-35 capabilty wise.

They should take notes from their neighbor, Israel does pretty well with their C/D Baz fleet. Thinking about their Rafale deal specifically lacking Meteor's and their MiG-29M's using mechanical radars, I think their now canned Su-35's would have been similarly hobbled. Used C/D's would all have AESA by now right? With Israel getting F-35's into full service it wouldn't be shocking for the US to finally supply the Egyptians with AIM-120's, albeit the older B/C models...

 

[isayyo2]

Here's The War Zone opinion piece which sums it up nicely

The U.S. Is Poised To Offer F-15 Eagles To Egypt

Cairo is in the market for a new heavy fighter, but some in Washington will likely want human rights improvements before signing off on a deal.

www.thedrive.com

At this point, there is no confirmation as to how many F-15s Egypt may be in line to receive, or when deliveries may take place. It’s also unclear what version of the jets would be offered, but some iteration of the new-build F-15EX now being delivered to the U.S. Air Force seems most likely.

As an alternative to another export version of the F-15EX, it’s conceivable that Egypt could be in line for second-hand F-15C/D jets provided from U.S. Air Force stocks. With the F-15EX soon coming into service, and with F-35As replacing legacy Eagles with some frontline units, there is the possibility that F-15C/Ds may become available for transfer. Despite their age, these are also formidable fighters, having been successively upgraded — featuring a new cockpit display system and active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar — to keep them highly potent. Still, these freshest of the nearly 40-year-old jets will eventually need airframe lifespan extension in the coming decade or so that would be a costly investment, and of course, they do not possess robust air-to-ground capabilities like the far more advanced F-15EX. All this could actually play into the decision to provide Egypt with Eagle capability, ending up as being something of a compromise.

 

[TomcatViP]

Concerning the airframe refresh, there is also the reconditioned wings sets in Saudi Arabia that are deemed of not much use with the new Eagle buy.

 

[isayyo2]

Concerning the airframe refresh, there is also the reconditioned wings sets in Saudi Arabia that are deemed of not much use with the new Eagle buy.

If the Saudi’s are game, their large fleet of C/D Eagles would be the perfect source for Egypt. While they’re a bit outdated, they would probably be in much better shape than the American equivalents. Saudi Arabia has been bankrolling the Egyptian modernization, might as well donate two or three dozen Eagles and replace them with Typhoons…

 

[rooster]

Concerning the airframe refresh, there is also the reconditioned wings sets in Saudi Arabia that are deemed of not much use with the new Eagle buy.

If the Saudi’s are game, their large fleet of C/D Eagles would be the perfect source for Egypt. While they’re a bit outdated, they would probably be in much better shape than the American equivalents. Saudi Arabia has been bankrolling the Egyptian modernization, might as well donate two or three dozen Eagles and replace them with Typhoons…

Maybe America should guy them back and upgrade. Our Eagles are quite worn out excluding the E

 

[aim9xray]

Which are only moderately worn out.

 

[helmutkohl]

not sure if already addressed..
but what happens to the Russian types in inventory or on order in Egypt and Indonesia, if they go ahead with the F-15s?
will they be phased out? cancelled?

 

[isayyo2]

not sure if already addressed..
but what happens to the Russian types in inventory or on order in Egypt and Indonesia, if they go ahead with the F-15s?
will they be phased out? cancelled?

Probably in a similar position to Malaysia, their MKM’s are all but grounded and need servicing/certification that can only be performed in Russia apparently.

 

[helmutkohl]

not sure if already addressed..
but what happens to the Russian types in inventory or on order in Egypt and Indonesia, if they go ahead with the F-15s?
will they be phased out? cancelled?

Probably in a similar position to Malaysia, their MKM’s are all but grounded and need servicing/certification that can only be performed in Russia apparently.

i've always felt for countries that have access to "western" aircraft, but also a desire to reduce/distance itself from the US.. US-French combo would be better than US-Russian or French-Russian, especially in terms of supplies.

 

[TomcatViP]

Israel is actively supporting the deal:

Israel urges Biden administration to sell F-15 fighter jets to Egypt

Israel is encouraging the Biden administration to approve a major arms deal with Egypt for the sale of F-15 fighter jets, two senior Israeli defense officials told Axios.Why it matters: The Israeli lobbying efforts show the depth of the Israeli-Egyptian relationship in recent years and the...

news.yahoo.com

 

[helmutkohl]

Israel is actively supporting the deal:

Israel urges Biden administration to sell F-15 fighter jets to Egypt

Israel is encouraging the Biden administration to approve a major arms deal with Egypt for the sale of F-15 fighter jets, two senior Israeli defense officials told Axios.Why it matters: The Israeli lobbying efforts show the depth of the Israeli-Egyptian relationship in recent years and the...

news.yahoo.com

while I know relations have changed a lot these past few decades.. it still sounds weird to read..
Israel wants Egypt to get new jets

 

[isayyo2]

Israel is actively supporting the deal:

Israel urges Biden administration to sell F-15 fighter jets to Egypt

Israel is encouraging the Biden administration to approve a major arms deal with Egypt for the sale of F-15 fighter jets, two senior Israeli defense officials told Axios.Why it matters: The Israeli lobbying efforts show the depth of the Israeli-Egyptian relationship in recent years and the...

news.yahoo.com

while I know relations have changed a lot these past few decades.. it still sounds weird to read..
Israel wants Egypt to get new jets

It sure is a nice change of pace, that’s for sure.

 

[mkellytx]

Israel is actively supporting the deal:

Israel urges Biden administration to sell F-15 fighter jets to Egypt

Israel is encouraging the Biden administration to approve a major arms deal with Egypt for the sale of F-15 fighter jets, two senior Israeli defense officials told Axios.Why it matters: The Israeli lobbying efforts show the depth of the Israeli-Egyptian relationship in recent years and the...

news.yahoo.com

while I know relations have changed a lot these past few decades.. it still sounds weird to read..
Israel wants Egypt to get new jets

It sure is a nice change of pace, that’s for sure.

It would be a nice change pace, perhaps even some mutual interest, one always hopes for the better angels... The cynic in me thinks they trust the Americans to withdraw the tech support more than the Russians if the Islamists take over again.

 

[TomcatViP]

Double posting here:

Air Force's math on the F-15EX and F-35 doesn't add up - Breaking Defense

In a new op-ed, JV Venable of the Heritage Foundation goes deep on Air Force budget figures to answer the question of which is more expenses, the F-35A or F-15EX.

breakingdefense.com

With an interesting price breakdown document under excel available here

F15EX vs F35 costs

Sheet1 F-35 Pg Vol 1-7,F-15EX pg Vol 1-25 https://www.saffm.hq.af.mil/Portals/84/documents/FY22/PROCUREMENT_/FY22%20DAF%20J-Book%20-%203010%20-%20Aircraft%20Proc%20Vol%20I.pdf?ver=D30H6xM2u1TyofiA4HpW3g%3d%3d,SidBy Side FY2021,FY2022,FY2021,FY2022 Recurr Cost Elem,Unit,Qty,Total Cost,Unit,Qty,To...

t.co

Remark:
I had no idea that Legion pod was so expensive

 

[zebra159357]

The F-15EX Program Is In Trouble

The Air Force is looking to reduce the size of its F-15EX buy to the point that it is likely to be more trouble than it's worth.

www.thedrive.com

 

[sferrin]

So they're reducing the F-35 AND the F-15EX buy? FFS.

 

[Sundog]

So they're reducing the F-35 AND the F-15EX buy? FFS.

And increasing money for NGAD and upgrading F-22s with systems being developed for NGAD. It isn't difficult to figure out what's going on.

 

[sferrin]

So they're reducing the F-35 AND the F-15EX buy? FFS.

And increasing money for NGAD and upgrading F-22s with systems being developed for NGAD. It isn't difficult to figure out what's going on.

Let's hope so.

 

[rooster]

So they're reducing the F-35 AND the F-15EX buy? FFS.

And increasing money for NGAD and upgrading F-22s with systems being developed for NGAD. It isn't difficult to figure out what's going on.

Yeah its obvious. I've seen this movie before and its called kicking the can down the road. "We're not going to buy these systems today but we will buy something else better in the future when whatever it is becomes available". The last version of this same tired movie starred the f22 and f35. Now its the f35 and ngad. Before that it was called the seawolf. It isn't difficult to see what's going on. It's the same thing going on that gave us an air force with 60 year old bombers and 35 year old fighters. Oh yeah they're unwilling to buy the f35 but they will placate you with look "we're spending 250 million on ngad this year so to away and shut up."

 

[Volkodav]

Double posting here:

Air Force's math on the F-15EX and F-35 doesn't add up - Breaking Defense

In a new op-ed, JV Venable of the Heritage Foundation goes deep on Air Force budget figures to answer the question of which is more expenses, the F-35A or F-15EX.

breakingdefense.com

With an interesting price breakdown document under excel available here

F15EX vs F35 costs

Sheet1 F-35 Pg Vol 1-7,F-15EX pg Vol 1-25 https://www.saffm.hq.af.mil/Portals/84/documents/FY22/PROCUREMENT_/FY22%20DAF%20J-Book%20-%203010%20-%20Aircraft%20Proc%20Vol%20I.pdf?ver=D30H6xM2u1TyofiA4HpW3g%3d%3d,SidBy Side FY2021,FY2022,FY2021,FY2022 Recurr Cost Elem,Unit,Qty,Total Cost,Unit,Qty,To...

t.co

Remark:
I had no idea that Legion pod was so expensive

Wow!

So the F-35 is cheaper to buy, cheaper to operate as well as being more capable and survivable. No wonder so many nations are selecting it despite the bad press.

I wonder how it compares to current production F/A-18, F-16, Typhoon, Rafale, etc?

 

[Jeb]

So they're reducing the F-35 AND the F-15EX buy? FFS.

And increasing money for NGAD and upgrading F-22s with systems being developed for NGAD. It isn't difficult to figure out what's going on.

I wonder if this means that there has been a technology breakthrough that's changed the math for 6th gen. Whatever problem they were solving for with the F-15EX may have just become a lot less of a problem.

 

[Josh_TN]

My personal guess is that USAF is now exclusively focusing on countering China in the medium term at the expense of being able to counter Russia in the near term, because the latter is now a reduced threat for several reasons. Its air force isn't performing as well as expected and it is suffering small but hard to replace material losses. Also at the strategic level it seems very likely that Europe increases its defense budgets, NATO gains at least one new member (who already has a substantial F-35 contract), and Russia likely needs years to rebuild its conventional capability on the ground. Even before the war, Norway, Finland, and Poland were going to buy a combined ~150 F-35s which would have outnumbered Russia's existing Su-57 contract(s) 2 : 1 (~75 airframes to be completed by 2027-28). NATO air dominance in any future European war seems pretty solid in that context.

Taken all together, the USAF probably feels it doesn't need the kind of resources for Europe it thought it did back in February. Hence dropping E-3s, F-15s, and even Block 20 F-22s. The drop in F-35s seems to be in anticipation of getting Blk4s fresh off the production line and refocusing money on F-15s in the short term since it is a mature design. The total number of F-15EX dropped but the number to be purchased in the short term I think actually increased.

There also might be some kind of NGAD activity affecting this as well but the timing makes me think the decisions are being driven more by current events.