Blohm und Voss BV P 212

[Stargazer]

From the Sep.-Oct. 1974 issue of the German Luftfahrt International:

 

[kiradog]

BV 212 design studies. Versions .01 through .04

Gary

 

[Stargazer]

Splendid! What a great design this was.

 

[Basil]

... and regarding the design - don't forget the BV P-215

 

[Stargazer]

Topics merged.

 

[dannydale]

I remember seeing this on Luft '46. It still looks like a bird of prey.

 

[steelpillow]

A couple of web sites claim that three prototypes were under construction at the end of the war:
http://www.luft46.com/bv/bvp212.html
http://tanks45.tripod.com/Jets45/Histories/BV-212/BV-212.htm

Does anybody know of any reliable sources for this?

 

[Thaeris]

Necro, I know, but...

I just want to say thank you for posting an original wartime P.212.03 drawing! I've wanted one of those for a VERY long time! Justo Miranda actually once sent me a P.212.02 variant which I've never seen posted anywhere else... this featured a similar wing and fuselage design, but had a single conventional tailfin on the fuselage. I'll see if I can put something together for that for the coming week.

 

[hesham]

Necro, I know, but...

I just want to say thank you for posting an original wartime P.212.03 drawing! I've wanted one of those for a VERY long time! Justo Miranda actually once sent me a P.212.02 variant which I've never seen posted anywhere else... this featured a similar wing and fuselage design, but had a single conventional tailfin on the fuselage. I'll see if I can put something together for that for the coming week.

Welcome aboard Thaeris,

and that will be nice.

 

[newsdeskdan]

Necro, I know, but...

I just want to say thank you for posting an original wartime P.212.03 drawing! I've wanted one of those for a VERY long time! Justo Miranda actually once sent me a P.212.02 variant which I've never seen posted anywhere else... this featured a similar wing and fuselage design, but had a single conventional tailfin on the fuselage. I'll see if I can put something together for that for the coming week.

You mean this one:

 

[Thaeris]

Dear God...

That's exactly what I meant! And here I thought I'd have to whip out the vector graphics software to make something presentable (as well as offer some respect to good Mr. Miranda)!

By the way, I was having this conversation the other day with a friend on another forum... do we know the origins of the armament diagram drawings? As far as I know, these are all depictions of the P.212.03, but the engine is seen with its line of action intercepting either the center of gravity or center of pressure of the fighter (or something similar) rather than going straight in the aircraft's line of action like all of the other drawings. That is also the only official drawing I know of that shows the "50's car" style stabilizing fin, which would no doubt help with directional stability (at the expense of extra drag and weight). If someone is privy to that information, I'd love to know more about it.

 

[Wietze]

Hell Everyone,

Is this P212.01 drawing I found on Luft 46, also based on an original B&V drawing? It has different wing-ends... I haven't found it anywhere else. Wondered if it is based on a genuine drawing or highly speculative...

Regards, Wietze

 

[Zizi6785]

Hell Everyone,

Is this P212.01 drawing I found on Luft 46, also based on an original B&V drawing? It has different wing-ends... I haven't found it anywhere else. Wondered if it is based on a genuine drawing or highly speculative...

Regards, Wietze

View attachment 646988

No original drawing, i think just fantasy

 

[Aubi]

Ask Justo Miranda. It seems to be his picture.

 

[newsdeskdan]

Hell Everyone,

Is this P212.01 drawing I found on Luft 46, also based on an original B&V drawing? It has different wing-ends... I haven't found it anywhere else. Wondered if it is based on a genuine drawing or highly speculative...

Regards, Wietze

View attachment 646988

This is what the P 212.01-01 looks like (see below). Gary already posted it - twice - in reply #2.

 

[Aubi]

Yeah, that's P 212.01-01, but the Luft46 profile is P 212.01.

 

[newsdeskdan]

Yeah, that's P 212.01-01, but the Luft46 profile is P 212.01.

?

Okay, let me put it this way. The sequence of known drawings goes:

P 212.01-01
P 212.02- (design with spine)
P 212.02-01 (appearing in the Blohm & Voss brochure of November 28, 1944, as 'P 212.02')
P 212.02- (design with single fin - see post #10)
P 212.03-01 (appearing in the Blohm & Voss brochure of January 11, 1945, as 'P 212.03')

The only known P 212.01 drawing is P 212.01-01, discovered by Gary Webster circa 2012. There are no other known contemporary drawings of the P 212.01.
The '-XX' code, i.e. 'P 212.01-XX', appears on drawing numbers. When those same drawings were used as part of a brochure, the '-XX' code was removed. So had the P 212.01-01 design been used for a brochure, and as far as we know it wasn't, it would then have been referred to as 'P 212.01'. I hope that all makes sense.

If we were to assume, for the sake of argument, that the drawing you refer to as 'P 212.01', was based on a genuine period drawing, the pre-brochure drawing in question would need to have been 'P 212.01-02' or 'P 212.01-03', for example. But as far as can be determined through extensive primary source research, there were no other P 212.01 designs apart from P 212.01-01.
When the Luft46 website was created in the late 1990s, the P 212.02-01 design was known, as was the P 212.03-01 design. No one had yet discovered a period drawing of the P 212.01-01 but it was presumed that such a design must exist since there was certainly a .02 and .03. Therefore, I surmise, the drawing you label 'P 212.01' is a speculative idea of how the P 212.01 may have looked.
The discovery of the genuine P 212.01-01 (looking really rather different from the 'P 212.01') some 12 years after the fact thereby serves to highlight the perils of taking a speculative approach to historical subject matter, as opposed to seeking out the primary source evidence.

 

[Wietze]

Thnx for all the information !!

Wietze

btw your book is really great Dan !