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Blackhawk Attack Helicopter

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STINGRAY

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Now, I am verry curious about if ther was some unbuilt Blackhawk project. I herd about it somewhere and forgot all about it ???. I do know there was an experimental attack helicopter before the Blackhawk and had the same name, but thats not what I am talking about.
 

frank

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It's also known as the Sikorsky S-67. It Googles up well enough. Assuming you're refering to the UH-60 as the 'other' Blackhawk, that's incorrect as the UH-60 is the Black Hawk, named after an Indian chief of some status. The S-67 is named Blackhawk, after the tribe. In some circles, the S-67 is also called the AH-3, since it was based on Sikorsky's H-3 designs.



STINGRAY said:
Now, I am verry curious about if ther was some unbuilt Blackhawk project. I herd about it somewhere and forgot all about it ???. I do know there was an experimental attack helicopter before the Blackhawk and had the same name, but thats not what I am talking about.
 
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STINGRAY

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It's also known as the Sikorsky S-67. It Googles up well enough. Assuming you're refering to the UH-60 as the 'other' Blackhawk, that's incorrect as the UH-60 is the Black Hawk, named after an Indian chief of some status. The S-67 is named Blackhawk, after the tribe. In some circles, the S-67 is also called the AH-3, since it was based on Sikorsky's H-3 designs.




Quote from: STINGRAY on Today at 12:37:23 am
Now, I am verry curious about if ther was some unbuilt Blackhawk project. I herd about it somewhere and forgot all about it . I do know there was an experimental attack helicopter before the Blackhawk and had the same name, but thats not what I am talking about.



Thanks for that, but is there an attack version of the Black Hawk? Or an unbuilt project?
 

CammNut

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Sikorsky is developing something called the Armed Battlehawk, which is a kit that can be added to a Black Hawk to give it a combat capability the company claims is close to the Apache, minus the Longbow radar.

The kit is made up mainly of Israeli equipment, including Elbit targeting sensors, and it will be armed with Hellfire and another missile, presumably Israeli. Firing tests are planned in Israel next year.

The Battle Hawk concept was first offered, unsuccessfully, to Australia:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/ah-60l.htm
 

frank

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Well, they had a mock up of an attack helo simialr to the Apache, based on the H-60 airframe. IIRC, it was S-71.
 

yasotay

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frank said:
Well, they had a mock up of an attack helo simialr to the Apache, based on the H-60 airframe. IIRC, it was S-71.

While Sikorsky did do some work on a attack (tandem seat) helicopter based on the Blackhawk dynamic components I do not believe they ever built a full mock up. I believe that they were "asked" not to confuse the politicians with too many options for attack helicopters, especially since the Army had already elected to go with the Apache. I did see a scale model at Ft. Rucker over ten years ago, but it disappeared when the organization who owned it moved to another building.

An interesting note is that the experiences of the American Special Operations Aviation Regiment and the Columbians, using armed Blackhawks, has renewed interest in the concept with other users. I noted recently that the Israelis are looking into developing an armed Blackhawk.

Orionblamblam- could you post any pictures of the stealthy-hawk?
 

frank

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Well, somewhere, I think in this forum as well as in my stuff, is a photo pf either a big model or a mock-up of what's claimed to be the S-71. There's also a crude sketch of it around too.



yasotay said:
frank said:
Well, they had a mock up of an attack helo simialr to the Apache, based on the H-60 airframe. IIRC, it was S-71.

While Sikorsky did do some work on a attack (tandem seat) helicopter based on the Blackhawk dynamic components I do not believe they ever built a full mock up. I believe that they were "asked" not to confuse the politicians with too many options for attack helicopters, especially since the Army had already elected to go with the Apache. I did see a scale model at Ft. Rucker over ten years ago, but it disappeared when the organization who owned it moved to another building.

An interesting note is that the experiences of the American Special Operations Aviation Regiment and the Columbians, using armed Blackhawks, has renewed interest in the concept with other users. I noted recently that the Israelis are looking into developing an armed Blackhawk.

Orionblamblam- could you post any pictures of the stealthy-hawk?
 

frank

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Just to clarify, which helo ARE we talking about? The Blackhawk (S-67) or the Black Hawk (UH-60)? I know it's confusing, bit it's the Army & Sikorsky that caused it.
 
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STINGRAY

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This is giving me ideas on designing my own version of a tandem attack version of the Black Hawk. I think i'll call it... the AH-60Z "Blackhawk Warrior". Yeah! I like it!
 

Stingray

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I think there is an attack version of the S-70 (UH-60). My grandfather told me he saw a Black Hawk at an air show with wings and an undernose gun. He also said that info on the aircraft was almost top secret. I have never seen a UH-60 with a gun like that.
 

Jeb

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The UH-60 can be fitted with "wings" called ESSS (external stores something something) that can carry fuel and weapons. I've seen photos and drawings of H-60s with Hellfire quads and rocket pods, and there are also podded guns that can be carried and used. I'm told that the Army has H-60s in ops in Iraq with rockets and grenade launchers as well as door-mounted miniguns, but I don't think I've ever seen actual pics. That setup, however, would look very Hind-esque.
 

Stingray

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Jeb said:
The UH-60 can be fitted with "wings" called ESSS (external stores something something) that can carry fuel and weapons. I've seen photos and drawings of H-60s with Hellfire quads and rocket pods, and there are also podded guns that can be carried and used. I'm told that the Army has H-60s in ops in Iraq with rockets and grenade launchers as well as door-mounted miniguns, but I don't think I've ever seen actual pics. That setup, however, would look very Hind-esque.


I'm aware of that configuration....






.... Its the undernose gun part that caught my attention.
 

frank

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Again, I think you mean "Black Hawk".


yasotay said:
frank said:
Well, they had a mock up of an attack helo simialr to the Apache, based on the H-60 airframe. IIRC, it was S-71.

While Sikorsky did do some work on a attack (tandem seat) helicopter based on the Blackhawk dynamic components I do not believe they ever built a full mock up. I believe that they were "asked" not to confuse the politicians with too many options for attack helicopters, especially since the Army had already elected to go with the Apache. I did see a scale model at Ft. Rucker over ten years ago, but it disappeared when the organization who owned it moved to another building.

An interesting note is that the experiences of the American Special Operations Aviation Regiment and the Columbians, using armed Blackhawks, has renewed interest in the concept with other users. I noted recently that the Israelis are looking into developing an armed Blackhawk.

Orionblamblam- could you post any pictures of the stealthy-hawk?
 

frank

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I don't know where this came from, but this is a pic of 'something' supposedly based on the H-60 & supposedly designated S-71.



yasotay said:
frank said:
Well, they had a mock up of an attack helo simialr to the Apache, based on the H-60 airframe. IIRC, it was S-71.

While Sikorsky did do some work on a attack (tandem seat) helicopter based on the Blackhawk dynamic components I do not believe they ever built a full mock up. I believe that they were "asked" not to confuse the politicians with too many options for attack helicopters, especially since the Army had already elected to go with the Apache. I did see a scale model at Ft. Rucker over ten years ago, but it disappeared when the organization who owned it moved to another building.

An interesting note is that the experiences of the American Special Operations Aviation Regiment and the Columbians, using armed Blackhawks, has renewed interest in the concept with other users. I noted recently that the Israelis are looking into developing an armed Blackhawk.

Orionblamblam- could you post any pictures of the stealthy-hawk?
 

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frank

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Same for this one.

frank said:
I don't know where this came from, but this is a pic of 'something' supposedly based on the H-60 & supposedly designated S-71.



yasotay said:
frank said:
Well, they had a mock up of an attack helo simialr to the Apache, based on the H-60 airframe. IIRC, it was S-71.

While Sikorsky did do some work on a attack (tandem seat) helicopter based on the Blackhawk dynamic components I do not believe they ever built a full mock up. I believe that they were "asked" not to confuse the politicians with too many options for attack helicopters, especially since the Army had already elected to go with the Apache. I did see a scale model at Ft. Rucker over ten years ago, but it disappeared when the organization who owned it moved to another building.

An interesting note is that the experiences of the American Special Operations Aviation Regiment and the Columbians, using armed Blackhawks, has renewed interest in the concept with other users. I noted recently that the Israelis are looking into developing an armed Blackhawk.

Orionblamblam- could you post any pictures of the stealthy-hawk?
 

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yasotay

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Great pictures of the S-71. I must admit that I am not sure if this is the Sikorsky proposal for the AAH effort or if it was an effort to persuade the Army of an economy of commonality across the majority of the fleet. I recall that in the late 1980's Sikorsky made a pitch on that sort of thing. It was doomed before conception as Army Aviation was enthralled with its new Apache and had Corps Commanders writing doctrinal works on its Deep Attack viability to fight the Soviet Army artillery sitting in (then) East Germany.

As to a Blackhawk with a underslung gun, the picture below is from FLIGHT, as a representation of a potential Israeli "Attackhawk" effort.
 

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Stingray

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yasotay said:
As to a Blackhawk with a underslung gun, the picture below is from FLIGHT, as a representation of a potential Israeli "Attackhawk" effort.

Yasotay, I think thats it. Thanks. ;D
 

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frank said:
I don't know where this came from, but this is a pic of 'something' supposedly based on the H-60 & supposedly designated S-71.

Well, I can vouch for it's authencity, since I posted it. I work for SAC and stumbled across it in a presentation given as part of an internal course offered to new hires. It is the S-71 and while I shouldn't say it was based on the UH-60, the mockup's details certainly indicate that it was derived from the UTTAS work being conducted at the time.
 

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The Battlehawk is also known as the Armed Black Hawk (ABH) technology demonstrator by Sikorsky Aircraft Corporation and Elbit Systems.

The Defence Talk web site has an article titled "Armed Black Hawk (ABH) Completes Weapons Test" dated June 16, 2009:
http://www.defencetalk.com/armed-black-hawk-abh-completes-weapons-test-phase-19810/

I also found the attached Sikorsky sales brochure for the S-70 Battlehawk:
http://www.sikorsky.com/StaticFiles/Sikorsky/Assets/Attachments/Mission%20Downloads/S70-054_ABH_BR_hi.pdf

Sikorsky states that it will offer "Battlehawk" as a kit for legacy S-70 Black Hawk-family helicopters.
 

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sferrin

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Orionblamblam said:
STINGRAY said:
Now, I am verry curious about if ther was some unbuilt Blackhawk project.

There was a facetted stealthy Blackhawk project. Still just a transport, not a gunship. But still pretty spiffy-looking.

Maybe they found it? (Check the other thread on the mystery helicopter)
 

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The Battlehawk was offered for the Australian Army Aviation Corps as a contender for the then Air 97 over a decade ago which was won by the Eurocopter Tiger
 

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Does anybody know if the 20mm cannon used on the Battlehawk fire 20x102mm or 20x139mm caliber ammunition? All I've seen on the brochures is "20mm caliber".
 

Abraham Gubler

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Colonial-Marine said:
Does anybody know if the 20mm cannon used on the Battlehawk fire 20x102mm or 20x139mm caliber ammunition? All I've seen on the brochures is "20mm caliber".

It was/is the GIAT THL 20 turret which uses the M621 cannon chambered to fire either US M50 20x102mm or Oerlikon 20x120mm ammunition. 750 rounds carried in the magazine.
 

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Holy thread revival!! The AIAA book on the S-70 includes a picture of a mockup of an attack helicopter using H-70 dynamic components that was offered in the AAH competition after Sikorsky had won the UTTAS competition. 'Twould be an interesting subject to model.
 

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At Farnborough airshow 2016, Sikorsky launched their Armed Blackhawk (this one was one of the PZL MIlec produced S-70i International Blackhawk Airframe) and I was there so here are my photos.

So far as I am aware, there have been no orders ...

Cheers
 

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RavenOne

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Also the likes of B3 ( Brainerd / Firehawk Helicopters and Brown Helicopters) and Sierra Nevada Corp have gotten former army Uh-60A, over the last few years , in commercial category albeit experimental and arm them up for testing and evaluation.

So here my photos from attending Heli Expo 2017 in Dallas of BHI² (BHI Squared) Helicopters experimental white a/c Uh-60A with a variety of ummm external stores.

And here are my photos from a month ago at Heli Expo 2019 in Atlanta of Sierra Nevada Corp dark former army Uh-60A albeit armed.

Cheers
 

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Grey Havoc

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RavenOne said:
So far as I am aware, there have been no orders ...

I'd say having already been taken over by Lockheed by that time hasn't exactly helped that or other projects.
 

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Grey Havoc said:
RavenOne said:
So far as I am aware, there have been no orders ...

I'd say having already been taken over by Lockheed by that time hasn't exactly helped that or other projects.
I don't know, they didn't seem to be doing any better in their final days as part of UTC. It's not like Lockheed has their own attack or utility helicopter that is going to compete with the Black Hawk.
 

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While it may be true that a dedicated version of the H-60 may not have beed sold, there are a number of H-60 that have been configured to take on that role around the world. Best known is the Columbian (Eagle) program that has been active for years. I think one of the Gulf States just bought some H-60 that are capable of being armed to the point of being an attack helicopter. I woud not be surprised if the new Polish SOF H-60 order will allow them to be re-configured in short order if needed. Some countries probably don't want to advertise having an attack helicopter capability.
 

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elmayerle said:
Holy thread revival!! The AIAA book on the S-70 includes a picture of a mockup of an attack helicopter using H-70 dynamic components that was offered in the AAH competition after Sikorsky had won the UTTAS competition. 'Twould be an interesting subject to model.
https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,15252.0.html
 

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