Beyond the Mercure - Avions Marcel Dassault-Bréguet Aviation projects......

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Re: Dassault « Mercure » airliner

ChuckAnderson said:
Hi Everyone!

I just thought that you might like to see a 3-view of the Dassault Mercure.


Chuck
Hehe, only sold to Air Liberté if IIRC.
 

dan_inbox

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Re: Dassault « Mercure » airliner

Exit said:
I just thought that you might like to see a 3-view of the Dassault Mercure.
Hehe, only sold to Air Liberté if IIRC.
All 12 copies of the Mercure produced were sold to Air Inter.
 

flateric

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Re: Dassault « Mercure » airliner

Ucon and me are looking for old articles and especially any drawings of AMD Mercure. Cutaways, 3-views, passenger seating, landing gear details, side profiles etc.

If you have something to share, please PM me.

BTW, does anyone have this 1972 Interavia article? As forr Flight International - all is checked up already.

As always, bunch of thanks. I will return a favor.
 

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Bailey

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Re: Dassault « Mercure » airliner

You may have picked this one up from flight global already, if not I hope it helps.

Regards Bailey.
 

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flateric

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Re: Dassault « Mercure » airliner

surely I did, but thanks anyway!
 

Caravellarella

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Dear Boys and Girls, here is an article about a developed Avions Marcel Dassault-Bréguet Aviation Mercure 200 "project". It featured a fuselage stretched by 2 frame pitches (over the production Mercure 100), longer wing-tips, uprated engines and higher weights for greater payload range capability......

The article comes from the April 1973 issue of Air Enthusiast International......

Terry (Caravellarella)
 

Caravellarella

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Dear Boys and Girls, here is another article about a later developed Avions Marcel Dassault-Bréguet Aviation Mercure 200 "project". It featured a fuselage stretched by 4 frame pitches (over the production Mercure 100), longer wing-tips and the then new CFM-56 turbofan engine. Note how the new engines' nacelles are integrated into the leading edge of the wing......

The article comes from the February 1976 issue of Air International......

Terry (Caravellarella)
 

Caravellarella

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Dear Boys and Girls, here is yet another article about a later developed Avions Marcel Dassault-Bréguet Aviation Mercure 200 "project". It featured a fuselage now stretched by 12 frame pitches (over the production Mercure 100), longer wing-tips and CFM-56 turbofan engines. It was proposed as a collaborative joint-venture with McDonnell-Douglas as a new generation jet airliner......

The article comes from the August 1976 issue of Air International......

Terry (Caravellarella)
 

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http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1978/1978%20-%200847.html

The outcomes of all that juggling, 1974-78, were:
- France stopped pouring civil money into Dassault to compete with Sud;
- UK rejoined Airbus Industrie which, slowly, became a real business, not a branch of 3 Nations' welfare systems;
- RR won its second US baseline (535 on 757);
- SNECMA became a civil power powerhouse (CFM56 and enhanced CF6s);
- A310 and A320 proceeded as real tripartite programmes, A320 selling at levels unprecedented in Europe;
- Italy built great chunks of MDC and Boeing craft;
- 737/CFM56, 757 and 767 took most of those market sectors.
Eventually, and near-unprecedented, some of these programmes actually delivered profit to their participants.
 

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Re: Dassault « Mercure » airliner

Dear Boys and Girls, here is an article in French describing the industrial launch of the Avions Marcel Dassault Mercure short-range jet airliner; at this stage probably still considered a "project" in the absence of any commercial orders......

The article comes from the 15th April 1969 issue of Aviation Magazine International......

Terry (Caravellarella)
 

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Caravellarella

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alertken said:
http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1978/1978%20-%200847.html

The outcomes of all that juggling, 1974-78, were:
- France stopped pouring civil money into Dassault to compete with Sud;
- UK rejoined Airbus Industrie which, slowly, became a real business, not a branch of 3 Nations' welfare systems;
- RR won its second US baseline (535 on 757);
- SNECMA became a civil power powerhouse (CFM56 and enhanced CF6s);
- A310 and A320 proceeded as real tripartite programmes, A320 selling at levels unprecedented in Europe;
- Italy built great chunks of MDC and Boeing craft;
- 737/CFM56, 757 and 767 took most of those market sectors.
Eventually, and near-unprecedented, some of these programmes actually delivered profit to their participants.
I think you've missed out some bits of "juggling" Alertken......

Terry (Caravellarella)
 

Caravellarella

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Dear Boys and Girls, here is a short column describing the nature of the proposed collaboration between Avions Marcel Dassault-Bréguet Aviation, McDonnell-Douglas, Aérospatiale and any other potential European partners to produce the Mercure 200 "project". Surprisingly Avions Marcel Dassault-Bréguet Aviation would only have retained 5% of the airframe work but would have remained programme leader......

The French Government had provided 80% (of the 70% Dassault/French share) of the launch costs for the original production Mercure 100; so it not surprising that they would seek to recoup those costs (and the losses incurred up to then) through a major share in production by Aérospatiale......

The column comes from the October 1976 issue of Air International......

Terry (Caravellarella)
 

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Re: Dassault « Mercure » airliner

another 3 views
 

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toura

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Re: Dassault « Mercure » airliner

FIRST FLIGHT
 

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Caravellarella

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Re: Dassault « Mercure » airliner

Dear Boys and Girls, here is a short feature in French about the first options taken on the Avions Marcel Dassault Mercure airliner. Air Inter remained the only customer for the Mercure; here the full scale mock-up is decorated in Air Inter livery......

The feature comes from the 1st October 1969 issue of Aviation Magazine International......

Terry (Caravellarella)
 

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Re: Dassault « Mercure » airliner

INSIDE THE PLANE
 

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Caravellarella

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Re: Dassault « Mercure » airliner

toura said:
INSIDE THE PLANE
Thank you Toura, I have visited that Mercure stored at Orly. It has a noticeably wider passenger cabin than a Boeing 737/727/757.

Terry (Caravellarella)
 

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Re: Dassault « Mercure » airliner

THE F-WTCC with the second tail
 

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Re: Dassault « Mercure » airliner

Another livery
 

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toura

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Re: Dassault « Mercure » airliner

How are you Caraavellarella.
 

Caravellarella

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Re: Dassault « Mercure » airliner

toura said:
How are you Caraavellarella.
I'm having a Mercure moment, thank you Toura ;D......

Here is a picture with a caption in French of the full-scale mock-up of the Avions Marcel Dassault Mercure being moved past L'Arc de Triomphe on the night of 19th/20th May 1969 en route to Le Bourget (I assume for the 1969 Paris Salon), for you......

The picture comes from the 1st June 1969 issue of Aviation Magazine International......

Terry (Caravellarella)
 

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Re: Dassault « Mercure » airliner

Hi Caravellarella
THANK YOU VERY MUCH
This is VERY interesting !
 

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Re: Dassault « Mercure » airliner

toura said:
Hi Caravellarella
THANK YOU VERY MUCH
This is VERY interesting !
You're welcome Toura ;D. Here is another article in French about the Avions Marcel Dassault Mercure short-range jet airliner; it features many pictures of the full-scale mock-up (la Maquette-grandeur)......

The article comes from the 15th October 1969 issue of Aviation Magazine International......

Terry (Caravellarella)
 

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Re: Dassault « Mercure » airliner

Dear Boys and Girls, here is an advertisement in French proclaiming the options taken on the Avions Marcel Dassault Mercure airliner by the French domestic airline Air Inter ......

The advertisement comes from the 1st November 1969 issue of Aviation Magazine International......

Terry (Caravellarella)
 

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Caravellarella

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Dear Boys and Girls, here is a short column about proposed collaboration between Avions Marcel Dassault-Bréguet Aviation, McDonnell-Douglas, Aérospatiale and any other potential European partners to produce the Mercure 200 "project". From this point the Mercure 200 was usually called ASMR......

The column comes from the December 1976 issue of Air International......

Terry (Caravellarella)
 

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Re: Dassault « Mercure » airliner

Dear Boys and Girls, here is a 3-page advertisement in French for the Avions Marcel Dassault Mercure airliner......

The advertisement comes from the 1st May 1969 issue of Aviation Magazine International......

Terry (Caravellarella)
 

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Caravellarella

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Dear Boys and Girls, here are a pair of articles about the proposed collaboration between Avions Marcel Dassault-Bréguet Aviation, McDonnell-Douglas, Aérospatiale and any other potential European partners to produce the Mercure 200 or ASMR "project"; the articles give an indication of the tortuous way ahead for the "project"; most likely promped by the lack of airline customer interest. At this point the "project" to develop the Mercure split into two parallel "projects"......

The first article describes how McDonnell-Douglas chose to develop the Mercure 200-based ASMR into the ASMR-2 with an all-new supercritical wing. No indication is given of any participation by Avions Marcel Dassault-Bréguet Aviation or Aérospatiale in this ASMR-2 "project"; it eventually led (much further down the line) to the later, larger and all-new ATMR "project" for a twin-aisle Boeing 757 competitor......

The second article describes Avions Marcel Dassault-Bréguet Aviation's own plans to develop a slightly revised Mercure 200-1 and shorter Mercure 200-2 "projects"; a sign perhaps of increasingly desperate efforts to salvage something from the disastrous Mercure programme......

The articles come from the August 1977 issue of Air International......

Terry (Caravellarella)
 

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Dear Boys and Girls, here some pictures of a large cutaway model of the Avions Marcel Dassault-Bréguet Aviation Mercure 200-1 "project". I don't know where the pictures originate (the internet?), but I think the model is displayed at a museum in Bordeaux (Mérignac?)......


Terry (Caravellarella)
 

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Caravellarella

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Re: Dassault « Mercure » airliner

Dear Boys and Girls, here is an extensive article about the Avions Marcel Dassault-Bréguet Aviation Mercure 100 jet airliner covering the history of the design, flight-testing of the first prototype and prospects for success in the marketplace. It is interesting to see that the first prototype originally flew with a nil dihedral tail-plane......

The article comes from the April 1972 issue of Air Enthusiast International......

Terry (Caravellarella)
 

Caravellarella

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Dear Boys and Girls, here is a short piece about a proposed Avions Marcel Dassault-Bréguet Aviation Mercure 300 "project" for a new airliner with three rear-mounted CFM-56 engines. This was the final attempt to salvage a new aircraft design from the disastrous Mercure programme; promoted as a alternative back-up to the Airbus Industrie A300B10 200 seat "project" and any future 150 seat new technology twin-jet "project". After this point, I cannot find any further Mercure activity from Avions Marcel Dassault-Bréguet Aviation; probably safe to say that the Mercure died a death at this point......

The McDonnell-Douglas ASMR-2 derivative "project" had not generated any customer interest and was transforming into the all new ATMR-2 "project". qv http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,1296.msg125208.html#msg125208 ......

McDonnell-Douglas had already made moves to launch the DC-9-55RS "project" into production as the MD-80 (first customer order received October 1977)......

Aérospatiale had presented their all-new A200 series as the basis for a European collaborative new technology 150 seater. qv http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,7892.msg124657.html#msg124657 ......

The piece comes from the September 1977 issue of Air International......

Terry (Caravellarella)
 

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(Multiple 1970s' airliners threads: so:) Why did they all settle into today's Airbus and Boeing lines?

I can only be UK-centric: maybe others can do the D/F/N politics better. Key dates/events:
18/10/72: first flight, A300B1/CF6. Hopeless market penetration/white tails littering Toulouse into 1980.
1/1/73: UK in EEC.
29/4/77: UK nationalises (BAC+HSAL, as) BAe. Shorts, RR and BA already nationalised. Zero risk-finance in the aero industry.
7/7/78: Airbus Industrie GIE launches A310/CF6; 9/78, wing to BAe.; 24/10/78: UK buys 20% of AI, for BAe.
14/7/78: Boeing launches 767.
23/3/79: Boeing launches 757; BA launch customer, RB211-535 "baseline".

That sequence left no new civil design work for Dassault, McDonnell Douglas Corpn., Short, who had all tried through this time to launch new types in collaboration. Other design teams that had to settle for sub-contract fabrication included Aeritalia, Breguet, Convair (DC-10 fuselage, 747 lower nose), Fokker, Nord Avn, Messerschmitt-Bolkow-Blohm. (ex-HFB/Hamburg, ex-VFW/Bremen) and (ex-Sud Avn./Nantes, St.Nazaire) retained design and fabrication competence.

Relative merit of Proposals was not the decisive factor causing A310/757/767 to prevail. Politics/money were. 2 quotes to illustrate:
Chairman T.Wilson: by ’72 Boeing had “sold c.$20Bn. of commercial airplanes and hadn’t made any money (an) absolute basket case on 737 (great early) difficulties on 747” R.J.Serling,Legend & Legacy,St.Martin’s P.,92,P.385. By 1978 the sole large airliners ever to deliver respectable profit-on-investment had been Viscount, 707, 727, 747.
PM Callaghan visited US to settle UK Aero-industrial policy, 7/78: “Boeing talked down (as if he came from an) underdeveloped country(. MDC’s) ‘concept (was) never really (a) concrete proposition’” J.Newhouse,The Sporty Game,Knopf,82,P208.

Boeing & MDC wanted his Launch Aid money, not the design wit of his rude mechanicals. 15% of 767 structure, declined by Jim, was sourced from each of Aeritalia and (the Japanese consortium), who tooled up...lost very large sums upfront, but came back for more on follow-on programmes. None of the schemes in these posts should be seen as attempts-on-profit. States possessed Aero, which must be employed "in the National Interest".

Others did not read this history. Canada rushed in, built up Bombardier to be 3rd. largest, in recent civil deliveries...and are now reported to be desperate to unload. Russia and China are aiming for their exact RJ segment, which Embraer now near-owns. A re-run, then, of DC-10 v. L.1011, ensuring pain for all. All so odd.
 

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Caravellarella said:
Dear Boys and Girls, here some pictures of a large cutaway model of the Avions Marcel Dassault-Bréguet Aviation Mercure 200-1 "project". I don't know where the pictures originate (the internet?), but I think the model is displayed at a museum in Bordeaux (Mérignac?)......


Terry (Caravellarella)
Crap, I think I know that place - and that Mirage wing ! It is my beloved CAEA (see my signature), looks like René Lemaire models. Next door is the library - where I volunteer ;D
 

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My dear Archibald,


are there any more projects in that place ?.
 

Archibald

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Oh, certainly, we have the full and entire collection of Air&Cosmos since 1963, all 2400 of them. Now if only I had a clone of myself digging the collection... ;)
 

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Thank you my dear Archibald,


we hope to see some of them.
 

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From Jane's All the World's Aircraft 1965-1966,


here is early drawing to Dassault-Breguet Mercure,completely different,it had a
rear mounted engines.
 

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