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Beyond the Horizon: The History of AEW&C Aircraft

edwest

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This one looks good.

http://www.amazon.com/Beyond-Horizon-History-AEW-Aircraft/dp/0985455438/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1411152876&sr=1-1&keywords=beyond+the+horizon+history




Ed
 

Deino

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Yepp ... already discussed here.

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,11548.msg215648.html#msg215648
 

AEWMan

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Hi All,

My book "Beyond the Horizon - The History of AEW & C Aircraft", now appears to be at the printers and will be launched on the Aviation Book Shop stand at Scale Model World 2014 at Telford on 8th & 9th November. I will be doing a book signing at various times on both days. Harpia have put up a really nice taster of the book with pages from each chapter of the book complete with illustrations on their website.

It's been a long hard road to get there spanning 9 years but the end result has been worth it (I don't mean financially as the proceeds to me an my co-author most probably cover the cost of the inkjet printer cartridges I've used up over the years!). However, the end result has been worth it. By the way I will be buying a copy of Chis Gibson's Listener's whilst at the show.

Cheers

Ian
 

Deino

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Hi Ian, first of all congrats & wellcome on board here and even more within the Harpia-team ! ;)

As far as I know the book is not only at the printers but like Heinz told me yesterday its way to me home and I can't wait to have it in my own hands.

By the way and similar to the previous years the animated previews are online:

Beyond the Horizon, The History of Airborne Early Warning
http://www.harpia-publishing.com/galleries/AEW/index.html


Regarding:

... It's been a long hard road to get there spanning 9 years but the end result has been worth it (I don't mean financially as the proceeds to me an my co-author most probably cover the cost of the inkjet printer cartridges I've used up over the years!). However, the end result has been worth it.
....
I cannot more than agree with You, but is was surely worth ...

Deino
 

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Deino

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Just found at the ACIG-Forum page ... written by Tom Cooper


Here a thread about this book too.

Written by Ian Shaw and Sergio Santana since several years, and now finally published by Harpia.

This was a handful to prepare, which is little surprise: although AEW&C is one of most important aspects of modern military flying, this topic is so badly underreported that only a few related titles have been published.

In the case of this book, a summary of development of AEW aircraft and helicopters through the last 70 years (starting with RAF's Wellingtons in WWII!), though the 1950s, 1960s, 1970s, and 1980s is foremost told through their operational history. Everything is wonderfully illustrated with help of selected photography (most of it never published before), extremely rare crew-stories (many of those providing them had to ask responsible authorities for corresponding permissions!), diagrams, patches and aircraft profiles/artworks.

And be sure: this book is not only covering the history of coming into being of this military aviation branch, but providing a wonderful review/catalogue of what's around in this much ignored 'genre'.

One of first articles published about this book can be found:
http://falkeeinsgreatplanes.blogspot.co.uk/2014/10/beyond-horizon-history-of-airborne.html
A chat with Ian Shaw, author of a new history of AEW aircraft, due soon from Harpia Publishing.

Hello Ian, could you please tell me how you to came to write this book, what was your angle and your interest ?

"..Essentially the story stems from me reading "AWACs and Hawkeyes" by an American author Edwin Armistead which purports to be a history of AEW aircraft but actually only really covers the Hawkeye and other American aspects of the subject matter. I first read Armistead's book when I was an RAF Warrant Officer Liaison with NATS in Heathrow Control Tower around 9 years ago. I had done previous tours at Waddington and worked with the RAF AEW component there and knew that Armistead's account of the RAF in the Balkans Wars was inaccurate. Also his version of the genesis of AEW completely missed out the fact that the British had invented the air cooled cavity magnetron and that the Wellington ACI was the first AEW aircraft and more importantly the Tizzard Commission had given all of our radar secrets to MIT for them to develop. His book fails to cover the USN E1, the AEW Shackleton, RN FAA AEW Skyraiders or French Navy Avengers in any sort of detail. It also fails to examine the early use of Wellington aircraft to detect V-1 flying bombs fired over the North Sea, concentrating on the Project Cadillac start in the US. All these omissions from his book so annoyed me that I wrote an essay that I published on-line. Brazilian aircraft enthusiast Sergio Santana read my article. He contacted me and asked if I would like to join with him to finish a book he had already started covering the history of AEW Aircraft.."

Can you tell me something about the research and writing of your book ?

"...The biggest snag by far was that Sergio Santana hardly spoke English and everything he wrote in English had to be completely rewritten. To cut a long story short around 3 years ago he spoke to Harpia Publishing and they said they would be interested in producing a history of AEW aircraft, but in a completely different format of book to what we had completed so far. We therefore started all over again and here we are years later with the final product. The format is very much the Harpia high-quality house style with lots of fantastic unpublished photos and side view drawings of every type of operational AEW aircraft by Tom Cooper, just to whet your appetite! Just look at the quality of the Wedgetail cover picture.."

What about some of the types that are covered; Beriev 'Mainstay' for example ?

Yes, the history of the Mainstay is covered in depth, it's use in Chechnya and other conflicts. Also all the other IL-76 derivatives are covered including the Baghdad 1 and 2 and the Adnan 1 and 2 in detail.

Are you pleased with the end result ?

"...Very much so! No-one else has covered the subject before in so much detail with actual aircrew and ground crew accounts included. There are a few secret trials -no longer within the secret time restrictions- in the book which I personally researched at Kew that have never been written about before either. Sadly Sergio, my co-author, dropped out of the writing process last Christmas at the most critical time of the book's production. Our original target was autumn 2013 but in 2012 I had to leave the project for around 9 months as my grandson was born in the February and for family reasons my wife and I ended up bringing him up for the first 9 months of his life, no easy task at 54 years of age. But sometimes in life you have to do what you have to do and in any case family always comes first. Fortunately our publisher extended the deadline by a month which my wife and I met, just by working through the little bit of the Christmas and New Year holidays that I had off from my job working over Christmas in a Police Control Room. I have spent the past nine months doing all the re-edits with Tom Cooper and Thomas Newdick and essentially re-written the book again for a third time! We originally thought the book would go to 2 volumes of 256 pages but Harpia in the end decided to do just the one volume. That meant some cuts to the text and much of the stats and serial number data being chopped, but these will be on my website when the book comes out. Readers can then have absolutely the whole story and all the back up data. It has been a long gruelling process but I think we have now killed the subject especially with that back up data going on my web site. There are some terrific photographs in the book , drawings of nearly all the squadron badges and patches but sadly very few maps and no models or kit info as was my original plan all those years ago, hence the models on the website again.."

When is the book published ?

"... We are launching the book at this year's Scale Model World in November at Telford - I am a keen modeller and IPMS member. I'll have some nice AEW models on my signing table at Telford too. Look out for the Aviation Bookshop's stand which is where I will be. It's been a labour of love and there absolutely no profit in it so I will not be getting rich on the proceeds but it was my dream to tell the "real" story not the American-biased version as it were, although I'm very happy to acknowledge that I got lots of help from the USAF and US Navy AEW fraternities..."

Thank you for your time Ian and best of luck with the book !

Ian Shaw's website "AEW world" is here

http://aewworld.weebly.com/
 

AEWMan

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Deino,

Thanks for posting that link, I conducted an email interview with Neil for his blog a couple of weeks ago. He's done a good job and free publicity is good publicity. I must admit though that the two pictures he has posted are not from the book they are ones that did not make it in. I will be publishing ALL the data, stories, photographs and missing Appendices that we could not get into the book on my website in November after the book has been launched, for readers to get the extra bits of the story FREE!

it will be here : http://aewworld.weebly.com/

Cheers

Ian
 

AEWMan

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Deino,

Lucky you, I still have to wait nearly 2 weeks to get a copy and I wrote it!

Well what do you think of it then?

Cheers

Ian
 

AEWMan

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Ryan,

Yes I do in detail, Cadillac 1 & 2 are covered in depth especially after Sir Henry Tizzard's mission gave MIT the air cooled cavity magnatron that worked, for free. I also cover the PB-1W in depth and have stories from the crews that flew them in the Korean War.

Cheers

Ian
 

RyanCrierie

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How detailed? I know from my own research in NARA II that:

SARATOGA was considered for the prototype installation of what was to become the ESSEX standard Cadillac AEW repeater installation, but she was unavailable; so RANGER (CV-4) was chosen and got the ESSEX Prototype installation in Spring 1945.

The first CADILLAC I detachments with aircraft began to commission and report to aircraft carriers in late August 1945 -- the primary criteria for what ship got what was "is it in a west coast yard undergoing an availability / repair period?".

CADILLAC III and IV were underway in some forms of planning when WWII ended, and they were cancelled.

Cadillac III was a B-17 installation with improved CIC layout

Cadillac IV was a B-17 installation with the same improved CIC layout, but with airborne moving target indicator (MTI) and other improvements.

The USAAF actually tried to poach away a CADILLAC II plane or two during the lead up to OLYMPIC; but got told to get bent (essentially) by the US Navy, who was running CADILLAC as a very close hold program.

Attached is a diagram of the CADILLAC I installation. Pretty cramped.
 

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Deino

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AEWMan said:
Deino,

Lucky you, I still have to wait nearly 2 weeks to get a copy and I wrote it!

Well what do you think of it then?

Cheers

Ian
Yeppp ... lucky me ! ... and even if I had not much time for a deeper look-thru I'm again amazed about the wealth of information, about the quality of some very rare images (the UAE's Saab 340, ...) ... what all "came together" on this topic, that for sure is not a main-stream topic and even more to put that all together into "only2 249 pages including a complete historical review. I'm even more impressed by Tom's artworks and James' maps .... it's simply a true gem.

Deino
 

marauder2048

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AEWMan said:
especially after Sir Henry Tizzard's mission gave MIT the air cooled cavity magnatron that worked, for free.
A profoundly ahistorical viewpoint which I hope doesn't color the rest of what could be a fine work.
 

phil gollin

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RyanCrierie said:
......... but got told to get bent (essentially) by the US Navy, who was running CADILLAC as a very close hold program. ..........




VERY PEDANTICALLY, not quite true. Project Cadillac was a NOMINAL allied project with Britain. There are numerous references to it in bits of the PRO:TNA, including an Operational Research paper on the best tactics to use Avenger aircraft.


.
 

Bruno Anthony

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Bottom line. Is this a book worth owning and considering as a definitive history of AEW aircraft?
 

CJGibson

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The writers don't claim it to be definitive and if you're looking for a definitive book on any aviation subject, have fun. I took Armistead's (or probably his publisher's) description of his book being 'definitive' as a challenge!

Chris
 

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Nobody and I mean NOBODY can write a DEFINITIVE book on anything! Yours truly included - we can only be as authoritive as possible. -SP
 

Hobbes

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I'm halfway through the book. It focuses more on operational use than R&D or technical details of the aircraft. There are lots of anecdotes from people who operated these aircraft.
 

Bruno Anthony

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Hobbes said:
I'm halfway through the book. It focuses more on operational use than R&D or technical details of the aircraft. There are lots of anecdotes from people who operated these aircraft.
Thanks Hobbes.
 

Stargazer2006

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CJGibson said:
The writers don't claim it to be definitive and if you're looking for a definitive book on any aviation subject, have fun.
Steve Pace said:
Nobody and I mean NOBODY can write a DEFINITIVE book on anything! Yours truly included - we can only be as authoritive as possible.
Thank God for that!! :)
 

AEWMan

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Hi All,

I know I said I would say no more about the book on this forum but I'm sorry it is not fair to let others answer pointed questions for me on my behalf. So here goes, actually Chris is dead right we never planned to write a "definitive book" on the subject and in fact the final version of the book that went into print, for several reasons is not the one we originally wrote. Many sections had to be cut out as space was the biggest limitation and quite correctly Heinz Berger the Chief of Harpia Publications had his idea of the "house style" of book that he wanted to produce. As a result a great deal of text, I would say roughly 40% was cut partially because Heinz knows his readership and my in depth explanations of historical context such as the reasons behind the Korean War and the conflict in S.E. Asia were considered by Heinz not necessary because he considered that his readership was knowledgeable enough to know those reasons already.

So if you like, it was cut down to brass tacks, that said Sergio and I insisted that certain sections remain virtually untouched. These were mainly the Aircrew stories which I feel add a human context of reality to the book. Back to the point the original Introduction that had to be cut down said this –

“ This book had to be written now, as the advent of AEW aircraft is still within living memory, just. The Air and Ground Crews who operated the very early aircraft described in this book have either already left or not far away from that final flight to that great Mess Hall in the sky. It is vital that their anecdotes are gleaned and recorded before they depart so that their stories are not lost to the mists of time, being replaced by speculation and assumptions or deliberate misleading. The famous British historical writer Max Hastings commented during a recent BBC Radio 4 literary programme, that “if anyone sent him a book to read that had on the dust jacket that it was the definitive history or version of a subject then he immediately threw it in the bin” Why? Because there is no such thing as a definitive history, and he’s right. As any author writing such a tome as this soon discovers that everyone’s perception and impressions of what was going on around them at a particular time and place may be different from someone else’s who was also there. The only thing an aspiring author can do is listen to what the participant is saying and ask the right questions, then produce the account without bias or embellishment. That is what the Authors here have tried to do. Wherever possible we have spoken the men and women who were there and took part but as the story has progressed towards today’s Operations, because of the need for secrecy and security, it has got a lot harder. Some nations will just not let their Operational Crews talk to anyone at best quoting the former reasons at worst just ignoring requests and stonewalling. Which personally being only 5 years away from the military myself I suppose I can understand. So, much of our recent data is from “Official Sources” so that we don’t fall foul of any Official Secrets Act and get anyone into trouble. Believe us we tried, so maybe one day in 40 – 50 years time those crews who operated over Libya and Afghanistan in the recent past will be liberated enough to talk about their exploits."

Regarding R&D of AEW &C Aircraft as Chris has already proven could take many volumes all on its own and again this excerpt from the original ‘Introduction’ I thinks covers the reason why there is little a bot R&D in the book –

"Keeping this in mind, the authors have selected for inclusion in this book only those AEW&C aircraft and systems that have taken part in not only the conflicts already mentioned but others that have participated in many not so well known hot spots around the globe, with the aim of providing the reader with a good overview of the topic. We have however, excluded the aircraft that have a limited “early warning” role only and lack a “control” capability, as we consider that they do not meet the established objective of this book. The contents of which will, in the early chapters tell the story of AEW&C aircraft, their roles and development in all major conflicts since the Second World War to date. The second half of the book is devoted to the details, colour schemes and operators of individual types of aircraft with original artwork and finally appendices will list serial numbers, squadron insignia and base locations.
We hope we have managed to tell, as complete a story as possible but not definitively, the history and evolution of an essential war asset, whose overarching importance is often forgotten or underrated."
Where we did include a particular platform we have written about its origins and its development. The acid tests I kept putting to Sergio and myself was – did it enter operational squadron service? Was it primarily a manned AEW &C platform?

If the answer was no then it did not go in, the only iffy type really was the Nimrod AEW as it could be argued the Trials Unit at Waddington was not an Operational Unit although RAF Air and Ground crews were involved. There were lots of aircraft that we would love to have included and written about they include in no particular order:

GAL58 Hamilcar Mk. X
AF-2W Guardian
US Navy P-2’s in various Recce/AEW roles
Sikorsky’s HR2S-1W helicopter with AN/APS-20
A-71 MADCAP
DC -3 AEW
BN-2T Defender CASTOR
C-295 AEW
EC-130V
Fairchild Swearingen Metro III TP-88 AWACS
HS-748 AEW (IAF)
YAK-44

And so on. Maybe one day some one will write the “Development” book so we can get both sides of the story.

Cheers

Ian :)
 

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Merely to note that Amazon.co.uk have cancelled my order for this due to non-availability.


.
 

CJGibson

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Amazon obviously have a problem with AEW books as they still say (despite telling them numerous times) that The Air Staff and AEW is unavailable.

Chris
 

JFC Fuller

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CJGibson said:
Amazon obviously have a problem with AEW books as they still say (despite telling them numerous times) that The Air Staff and AEW is unavailable.

Chris
Not just AEW books, I am finding this to be increasingly common with Amazon.
 

Krishna_j

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All are easily available at the Aviation Bookshop in Tunbridge Wells or ordered on-line from their web - saw these last week just after the annual sale day

http://www.aviation-bookshop.com
 

AEWMan

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Yes it most probably won't be available on Amazon UK. It is available from Amazon USA but it is quite expensive, there is a reason for this which I will explain.

However as pointed out above, it is available from The Aviation Book Shop at £32.99 plus £5 postage (a lot cheaper than Amazon)

The reasons behind this are that Harpia do not like Amazon for their own reasons. The partner company to Harpia Press in the USA is Case Mate Publishing. AFAIK half the print run was sent by container from Vienna in Austria where they were printed to Case Mate in the USA. They are printed in Austria because according to Heinz the company Boss the paper quality and binding in Austria is about the best in the world, the chinese and Aericans just cannot compete on quality. Case Mate are the main distributor in the USA and supply lots of American book shops (just Google the title to see how many) but I think the smaller shops are supplied on a kind of sale or return basis, so Harpia won't see a financial return for many months. The print run was limited and will never be repeated and according to Harpia once they've gone that's it there will not be a re-print so if you are considering buying it, act sooner rather than later. I guess this is all to keep the value (price) up so you won't find it in the "Works" or other budget shops eventually. From what I saw Harpia/Aviation Bookshop sold out of the Iranian Air Force book and one of the early African MiG books at Telford so that's it they've gone in the UK so if you want one of those it will be bidding for one on eBay at premium prices!

I hope that explains the marketing situation, something I have no influence over at all, after all harpia are the experts in these matters.

Cheers

Ian

Oh by the way I am starting to put the deleted book sections on my website here : http://aewworld.weebly.com/deleted-sections-from-the-book.html

It won't be absolutely everything because I want to keep some bits back for magazine articles (if they want them) and you will need to read the site entries along with the book for it all to make sense. But at least its free!
 

phil gollin

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Thanks for that.


It has been obvious for about 18 months that APART from the well known spat between Amazon and the major US publisher, that some of the smaller specialist publishers are (for some reason or another) essentially boycotting Amazon. This shows in two ways, first some publishers' books just aren't available on Amazon, and in addition, some are available only at full price.


Overall, Amazon's discounts on anything other than the main popular titles seem to have greatly reduced, so I ASSUME that it all has to do with how much publishers (and authors) actually get from any Amazon sale.


Still, good luck and I will put in an order today.


( A Merry Christmas and a worthwhile as an author New Year. )


.
 

AEWMan

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Phil

I won't go into detail but as any of the authors on here will tell you, one doesn't write an aviation book for the money! Also now I've sat down at Telford for two days and had long chats with other guys who write for the same publishers I realise how little money there is in the whole game. Amazon in the past have tried to discount everything and for small publishers there is no point selling through them especially on limited run books. We are all best dealing with and buying through aviation specialists like The Aviation Bookshop as if it wasn't for them our books just wouldn't get published.

Merry Christmas and a prosperous New Year to all forum colleagues

Ian
 

Krishna_j

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Kudos to authors like Ian ,Tom Cooper ,Thomas ,John Cochrane et al i met at Telford

After going through the book , i feel There is enough material for Harpia have published this in 2 volumes

- its the sheer enthusiasm rather than the gold that get the research done leading to these exotic books including Beyond the Horizon - but painfully aware that the mil aviation publishing scene is shrinking - the Aviation bookshop and a handful of similar specialist aviation stores across Europe keep the flag flying for enthusiasts

Amazon is for bulk volume sales and i doubt if the print run of many of these exceed 1000 to 2000 or 5000 at the most - so every copy printed is in effect a limited edition grab them while they last ;D
 

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My copy arrived today, but it was damaged, so I'll have to return it - without opening the shrink-wrap - for a replacement. I hope that the additional wait is worth it.

Why can't these book vendors learn: do NOT ship softcover books in anything less than a hard carton! :mad:
 

AEWMan

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Gator,

Sorry to hear about the damaged book. Can I ask which supplier you used as I am a bit bemused. The Aviation Bookshop who are the main suppliers in the UK whilst at Telford in November took all the shrink wrapping off the copies of the book that they and with them so that I could sign the books, so I would have expected theirs to arrive un-shrink wrapped, unless of course they had sold all their initial supply which I doubt. Amazon who now appear to be selling it but with delivery from the USA usually are very meticulous and all books I have ever had from them were in cardboard parcels. I'm very sorry to hear about this problem and I hope you get a replacement quickly.

Cheers

Ian
 

gatoraptor

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AEWMan said:
Gator,

Sorry to hear about the damaged book. Can I ask which supplier you used as I am a bit bemused. The Aviation Bookshop who are the main suppliers in the UK whilst at Telford in November took all the shrink wrapping off the copies of the book that they and with them so that I could sign the books, so I would have expected theirs to arrive un-shrink wrapped, unless of course they had sold all their initial supply which I doubt. Amazon who now appear to be selling it but with delivery from the USA usually are very meticulous and all books I have ever had from them were in cardboard parcels. I'm very sorry to hear about this problem and I hope you get a replacement quickly.

Cheers

Ian
It was an organization called PBShopUS which has generally done quite well. The book was wrapped in a corrugated cardboard sleeve inside a soft padded envelope, but the cardboard sleeve was bent as well as the book inside it. A hard cardboard carton still won't prevent all damage, but will still be better than a soft envelope, even with a cardboard sleeve inside.
 

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I just got this book off amazon and it's cool, best book on the subject I've found so far (found the link to this discussion on google when looking for links). I especially like the stories from the veterans, nice job. I didn't realise the brits got there first until I read this one, my favourite part was the Nam rescue story.

Hey TZAR I will be sending you a PM for the missing sections if thats okay with you.

eyeballhttp://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/Smileys/default/cool.gif
 

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AEWMan said:
especially after Sir Henry Tizzard's mission gave MIT the air cooled cavity magnatron that worked, for free.
A profoundly ahistorical viewpoint which I hope doesn't color the rest of what could be a fine work.
Going through old threads and found this one. Might put the book in my Amazon cart.

But would you clarify your statement? Did we need the British to know which way is up?
 

Joopeye

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AEWMan said:
especially after Sir Henry Tizzard's mission gave MIT the air cooled cavity magnatron that worked, for free.
A profoundly ahistorical viewpoint which I hope doesn't color the rest of what could be a fine work.
Going through old threads and found this one. Might put the book in my Amazon cart.

But would you clarify your statement? Did we need the British to know which way is up?
Bezos is rich enough...
 
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