Avro airliner - Brabazon era

Schneiderman

Schneiderman

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Here is a picture I just found on the Daily Mail site.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3412842/The-flying-death-trap-helped-save-civilisation-s-75-years-Lancaster-bomber-roared-aloft-leaders-refuse-celebrate-giant-smashed-Nazi-war-machine.html
It shows Roy Chadwick, chief designer at AVRO, siting at his desk with a model of a twin-engine airliner. The engines are clearly inline piston type, the number of windows would suggest around 20 seats and its clean lines suggest high speed. As Chadwick died in 1947 I would think that this is a Brabazon committee era project, around 1945, although I guess that there is a very slight chance that it could be earlier. There does not appear to be a place for this in Avro's type designation list. Is there anything about it at the Avro Heritage Museum? I cannot see anything useful on their website.
Any ideas?
 

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Nice find Schneiderman,

and I think it was Avro-703 as I check from Avro Heritage,or a version of Avro-692
or Avro-693.
 

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Well....the 692 project had six engines, the 693 was a jet engine project and so was the 703. So I don't think so
 
OK Schneiderman,

and here is my last suggesting,maybe right maybe wrong ?.
 

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Sorry Hesham, I have the tender for the Type XX and that is just a variation on the Tudor.
I think it is possible that this was designed to meet Brabazon type 2A requirement, for which the Airspeed Ambassador won the contract.
 
I think your hunch for a Brabazon Type 2A design is plausible. Looks like it could be a 18-24 seat design.

I doubt the Daily Mail dug too deep to find a photo of Chadwick, chances are its been published in another aeronautical publication at some time or is out of the Avro archive. That might give some more detailed timescale for the photo.
 
It looks to be quite a small aircraft, judging from the size of the engine nacelles, the cockpit glazing and the door, so two abreast seating for 18-24 does seem most likely. I guess it may be possible to fit three abreast and so around 36 seats.
Getty have a number of shots of Chadwick and his design team with a model of the York, and these look like they may have been taken at the same time, which suggests they are indeed Avro publicity photos.
 
OK Schneiderman,

and as you know,Avro designed some airplane Projects,but was never gotten any
designation number,such as a Torpedo Bomber for Spec. M1/30.
 
Yes of course, all companies did that. The question is when was it designed and for what civil requirement? Someone with detailed knowledge of Avro, perhaps attached to the Heritage Museum, may be able to answer that.
 
There is one thing worth considering...those wings and tail feathers look suspiciously like they came off a Manchester
 
Schneiderman said:
There is one thing worth considering...those wings and tail feathers look suspiciously like they came off a Manchester
Click to expand...

I had the same thought but in my mind the nacelles seem too small for the Vulture and such a streamlined nose would seem out of place for a 1942-43 era design compared to the contemporary works off the Avro drawing boards before the 693. It could though have been an early design exercise for what a post-war airliner might look like if it was indeed based off the Manchester.
 
Yes that's true, and the prop shaft is positioned too high for a Vulture too. Manchester II was suggested with Napier Sabres but the same size and prop position arguments would still apply.
Its a curious mixture of 'old' Avro; interim types such as York and Tudor, and later post-Brabazon streamline forms
 
I asked around at Avro Heritage yesterday and the consensus was that it was a general model for Mr Chadwick and not associated with any particular type or project. They confirmed that the office was Mr Chadwick's Chadderton office and that the model was often around on a filing cabinet. They have seen a photo of the model before and have tried to find some reference to it but as yet with no success, if anything ever turns up will let you all know. The photo archive people did not recognise the photo as being an Avro one.

Colin
 
weirc said:
I asked around at Avro Heritage yesterday and the consensus was that it was a general model for Mr Chadwick and not associated with any particular type or project. They confirmed that the office was Mr Chadwick's Chadderton office and that the model was often around on a filing cabinet. They have seen a photo of the model before and have tried to find some reference to it but as yet with no success, if anything ever turns up will let you all know. The photo archive people did not recognise the photo as being an Avro one.

Colin
Click to expand...

New info,thank you Weirc.
 
weirc said:
I asked around at Avro Heritage yesterday .......
Click to expand...
Many thanks for that! And thanks to the Heritage Trust team too!
 
I wonder if its a Daily Mail archive photo?
Still if its only a generic model that was around the office for some time I guess dating the picture has less relevance.
 

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