Taildog / SRAAM / ASRAAM family

So CAMM-ER Cannister 275mm x 275mm x 4.4m
Missile diameter 166mm body and 190mm wings, length 4.2m*

Max Mk 41 Cannister
Length 5.8m or 6.7m
diameter 638mm

Max Sylver A50/A70 cannister
Length 5m/7m
Diameter 600mm x 560mm


*That poster says length of CAMM-ER 4m but the MBDA English brochure says the missile length is 4.2m
Incidentally the CAMM-ER body of 166mm is the same as the standard CAMMs total diameter.
 
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WatcherZero said:
So CAMM-ER Cannister 275mm x 275mm x 4.4m
Missile diameter 166mm body and 190mm wings, length 4.2m*
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The wingspan is supposed to be 450mm.
WatcherZero said:
*That poster says length of CAMM-ER 4m but the MBDA English brochure says the missile length is 4.2m
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Yeah but that picture is from 2017 so in the development it could have gotten bigger in the last 7 Years.
WatcherZero said:
Incidentally the CAMM-ER body of 166mm is the same as the standard CAMMs total diameter.
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No it says only the upper part is 166mm which is true.
 
kqcke for you said:
The wingspan is supposed to be 450mm.
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Is that folded or not?

If unfolded, that's a relatively immaterial detail for trying to figure out if you could dual or quad-pack the things into a Mk41. Being able to dual-pack something with more range and capabilities than an ESSM would be attractive to the USN.
 
Scott Kenny said:
Is that folded or not?
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Unfolded as far i understand but until mbda says something we will never know for true.
Scott Kenny said:
If unfolded, that's a relatively immaterial detail for trying to figure out if you could dual or quad-pack the things into a Mk41. Being able to dual-pack something with more range and capabilities than an ESSM would be attractive to the USN.
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But then again we talk about CAMM-ER not MR which we have no idea how large it even is.
 
WatcherZero said:
*That poster says length of CAMM-ER 4m but the MBDA English brochure says the missile length is 4.2m
Incidentally the CAMM-ER body of 166mm is the same as the standard CAMMs total diameter.
Click to expand...
Yeah, there's a few inconsistencies, that sheet says 40km range, MBDA site says >45km.

www.mbda-systems.com

CAMM-ER | FORCE PROTECTION, Ground Based Air Defence | MBDA

CAMM-ER, the Common Anti-air Modular Missile Extended Range, is from the CAMM family of next generation air defence missiles, designed for land, sea and air environments.
www.mbda-systems.com www.mbda-systems.com
 
kqcke for you said:
But then again we talk about CAMM-ER not MR which we have no idea how large it even is.
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We know that the front end is the same as MR. Which does suggest that the back end is larger. But a 7"/178mm front end and a 9"/230mm back end means 65% more volume for an engine. Going to a 10"/255mm back end means 100% more volume.

What's the performance increase claimed for the ER over MR again?
 
Scott Kenny said:
We know that the front end is the same as MR. Which does suggest that the back end is larger. But a 7"/178mm front end and a 9"/230mm back end means 65% more volume for an engine. Going to a 10"/255mm back end means 100% more volume.

What's the performance increase claimed for the ER over MR again?
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MR? The ER supposedly goes >20km (80%) further than the standard CAMM. MR is larger than ER, which doesn't semantically make sense I know, but is nevertheless a fact. Increase of MR over ER is 122%.

1705851527165.png
 
Forest Green said:
MR? The ER supposedly goes >20km (80%) further than the standard CAMM. MR is larger than ER, which doesn't semantically make sense I know, but is nevertheless a fact. Increase of MR over ER is 122%.

View attachment 717880
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WTF?

I think my brain just broke.

But okay, CAMM-MR could easily be a 10" diameter rocket motor and have the right increase in volume over the -ER to account for that range claim. Plus an inch or two for the cold-launch bits.

And that's right at the size for dual packing into a Mk41.
 
kqcke for you said:
You could do 13.5 inch and get dual cell system in theory. But for that the fin / Wings would have to go.
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Exactly. So if the hinges are 1" across on each side, an 11" rocket motor is your outer limit. And the picture from the Polish brochure @Forest Green posted strongly suggests that the hinges down at the bottom of the rocket are about that big.
 
Scott Kenny said:
WTF?

I think my brain just broke.

But okay, CAMM-MR could easily be a 10" diameter rocket motor and have the right increase in volume over the -ER to account for that range claim. Plus an inch or two for the cold-launch bits.

And that's right at the size for dual packing into a Mk41.
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The CAMM-MR is just slightly narrower than the CAMM-ER canister (above post), which is 275mm, so 254mm (10") sounds right. Length-wise the -ER canister is 4.4m, so the -MR is about 9% longer, so 4.8m.
 
And If the upperstage stays Same its gonna be quite a lot more range. But i would love a full caliber version with pif paf even more. But we can't allways get what we want....
 
kqcke for you said:
And If the upperstage stays Same its gonna be quite a lot more range. But i would love a full caliber version with pif paf even more. But we can't allways get what we want....
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Well the UK are already using the Aster 30 aka Sea Viper for that role. Maybe the -MR will have pif-paf or some other DACT system too, since dual packing ability would offer capacity advantages over the Aster 30.
 
Now that we know how large a ExLS internal space is i kinda hope that CAMM-MR is small enough for a dual pack. I mean as far as i can tell the length of ExLS is easier to change If needed and we wouldn't be that mutch larger. Best Case Szenario we are only 5m Long in the ExLS cell. That could get everything under 6m making it shorter than even A50.
 
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kqcke for you said:
And If the upperstage stays Same its gonna be quite a lot more range. But i would love a full caliber version with pif paf even more. But we can't allways get what we want....
Click to expand...

With the UK paying to upgrade its entire Aster 15 & 30 stockpile to Aster 30 1NT standard I can't imagine that they'd be interested for the RN in the foreseeable and CAMM-MR, if purchased, would be such an upgrade for the Army that I can't imagine them wanting to complicate matters either.
 
timmymagic said:
With the UK paying to upgrade its entire Aster 15 & 30 stockpile to Aster 30 1NT standard I can't imagine that they'd be interested for the RN in the foreseeable and CAMM-MR, if purchased, would be such an upgrade for the Army that I can't imagine them wanting to complicate matters either.
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Yeah. It also would lose CAMM-MR biggest advantage. After all having (mostly) the same parts after the rocket engine like CAMM and CAMM-ER makes it mutch cheaper and a full caliber would lose that advantage or atleast some part of it.
 
kqcke for you said:
Yeah. It also would lose CAMM-MR biggest advantage. After all having (mostly) the same parts after the rocket engine like CAMM and CAMM-ER makes it mutch cheaper and a full caliber would lose that advantage or atleast some part of it.
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Personally I'm waiting for CAMM-LR and XR....;)
 
timmymagic said:
Personally I'm waiting for CAMM-LR and XR....;)
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Perhaps a CAMM-Meteor hybrid? Or maybe something more on the lines of SM-6 perhaps? It's something which may happen in the not too distant future; this missile family is extremely flexible, and with new requirements for SAMs, I think such a proposition will always be on the cards.
 
Jason Dykstra (Wyvern) said:
Perhaps a CAMM-Meteor hybrid? Or maybe something more on the lines of SM-6 perhaps? It's something which may happen in the not too distant future; this missile family is extremely flexible, and with new requirements for SAMs, I think such a proposition will always be on the cards.
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MBDA did show off the green painted Meteor some time ago, and it would be the natural progression for extreme range.

But perhaps the really sensible approach would be for an extremely cheap, shorter range interceptor, a 'CAMM-SR', like the Denel/Rheinmetall Cheetah/
 
timmymagic said:
MBDA did show off the green painted Meteor some time ago, and it would be the natural progression for extreme range.

But perhaps the really sensible approach would be for an extremely cheap, shorter range interceptor, a 'CAMM-SR', like the Denel/Rheinmetall Cheetah/
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Exactly my thinking.
A CAMM-SR more along the lines of a direct Rapier-like ranged system.
Ideally still VL cold launched and fitting in under 2.2m overall to be compatible with shipping containers.
 
I was just googling around MMSC switching to CAMM from ESSM and came across the entry for the contract and options at the link below (which I presume is just echoing some actual US government website). The thing that struck me is the option exercised on the 10th May last year, not the $19.8m exercised for initial production that caught the headlines then, but the other one under transaction history for $5m for "DEVELOPMENT EFFORT - ALTERNATE WARHEAD". An alternate warhead?

CAMM Development and Production

Definitive Contract N0002423C2301 worth up to $145.6M was awarded to Mbda on 1/31/23 by the Naval Sea Systems Command (N00024-23-C-2301)
www.highergov.com www.highergov.com
 
It would be very helpful for the Ukrainians if they could get the ground-launched version of CAMM with no doubt the Russians getting a nasty surprise.
 
www.twz.com

Red Sea Turkey Shoot: Allied Warships Down Dozens Of Drones Within Hours

Allied warships and aircraft repulsed a mass drone attack in the Red Sea, but it's still an ominous sign that the Houthis aren't backing down.
www.twz.com www.twz.com

Sea Ceptor had its combat debut on Friday with HMS Richmond shooting down two Houthi drones.

The Houthis report 37 drones launched, the US reports 28 shot down. Alsace got four for France, apparently using both Aster 15 and its 76mm, while Iver Huitfeld also got four.
 
Does anyone have any information including links on the ASRAAM's Roxel made rocket-motor?
 
WatcherZero said:
Could be as simple as switching out one component of the missile for an equivalent component manufactured in a different country. For example if someone who makes a CAMM component doesnt want it going to Saudi Arabia.
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Might be wrong on this...but I think the warhead was from TDW in Germany....
 

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