Alpenfestung 1946 Videogame Questions

Stuka_Hunter

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Hello

I just joined this forum yesterday, mainly because I want to discuss some things about a videogame I am going to make. It takes place in a German Alpine Fortress (alpenfestung) in 1946. I want to ask some questions bothering me about aircraft that could be used in the game. While some are pretty straightforward and logical decisions, some are so radical I dont know if they could be implemented in time.

Note: I Will post questions here when time comes, but for now, only a few questions.

1. In the game, I am planning to use the Blohm & Voss BV 222 flying boats to evacuate injured German soldiers from the Alpenfestung to the Allied port of Trieste. My question: Since a normal BV 222 by my calculations would barely climb over the mountains, I have an idea that four DB 610 coupled engines from dismantled Heinkel He 177 bombers could be used (2 on each wing), equipped with contrarotating propellers. Would this be logical?

2. Could the Messerschmitt Me P.1112 be in the flying prototype stage by May 1946?

3. Could the BMW Strahlbomber II (and with it the BMW 018 turbojet engine) be produced from late 1945 onwards to replace the Arado Ar 234 C?

More questions Will be posted if I have some. Any answer is appreciated.


Kind regards,
Stuka_Hunter :)
 
totally unrelated , but are you having Gatlings for the Germans / Nazis in the game ? Am pretty sure ı saw it somewhere that Eisenhower was once briefed on their existance but it must be almost 10 years now .
 
1. In the game, I am planning to use the Blohm & Voss BV 222 flying boats to evacuate injured German soldiers from the Alpenfestung to the Allied port of Trieste.

Since wen are the Alps so high as Himalaya ?
the Blohm & Voss BV 222 service ceiling is 7300 meter
last time i looked the Alps are much lower that or has this change ?
(even at 4500 meter for cruise speed the BV222 can fly easy over that part of Alps to get to Trieste...)

2. Could the Messerschmitt Me P.1112 be in the flying prototype stage by May 1946?
NOPE, That program start In early 1945 with completion of a Wood Mockup in April 1945, planned first prototype flight for June 1946.
Here lies the problem "planned" not mean, it will flight on that date, but realistic much later

Oh By the Way,
Messerschmitt had several production sites and Büros near the Alps
like the design department in Oberammergau and several Small production sites for Me 262.
go for more advance Me 262 Variant or P.1101 who had it prototype completed in April 1945

3. Could the BMW Strahlbomber II (and with it the BMW 018 turbojet engine) be produced from late 1945 onwards to replace the Arado Ar 234 C?

I have No idea how far that Program went at BMW, most literature only mention the design, not the program
Can be that BMW design was only a "Papertiger" collecting dust in archive of RLM

in that case go for Messerschmitt P.1100
it based on Me 262 so it's the production sites can modify by building the Bomber Fuselage instead
 
Michel Van said:
1. In the game, I am planning to use the Blohm & Voss BV 222 flying boats to evacuate injured German soldiers from the Alpenfestung to the Allied port of Trieste.

Since wen are the Alps so high as Himalaya ?
the Blohm & Voss BV 222 service ceiling is 7300 meter
last time i looked the Alps are much lower that or has this change ?
(even at 4500 meter for cruise speed the BV222 can fly easy over that part of Alps to get to Trieste...)

2. Could the Messerschmitt Me P.1112 be in the flying prototype stage by May 1946?
NOPE, That program start In early 1945 with completion of a Wood Mockup in April 1945, planned first prototype flight for June 1946.
Here lies the problem "planned" not mean, it will flight on that date, but realistic much later

Oh By the Way,
Messerschmitt had several production sites and Büros near the Alps
like the design department in Oberammergau and several Small production sites for Me 262.
go for more advance Me 262 Variant or P.1101 who had it prototype completed in April 1945

3. Could the BMW Strahlbomber II (and with it the BMW 018 turbojet engine) be produced from late 1945 onwards to replace the Arado Ar 234 C?

I have No idea how far that Program went at BMW, most literature only mention the design, not the program
Can be that BMW design was only a "Papertiger" collecting dust in archive of RLM

in that case go for Messerschmitt P.1100
it based on Me 262 so it's the production sites can modify by building the Bomber Fuselage instead

Thanks for the answer, it seems you really know your stuff. But I think I need to clarify some things:

About the BV 222: Its not the cruising altitude that is the problem, its the climbrate. You see, in the Alps there isnt enough room to circle and gather altitude slowly (at least not for a BV 222), because at one point you are going to run into a mountain and then we have a problem. Thats why normal Bramos or Jumo 222s aint going to cut it.

I am already planning to have Me 1101 in the game, great thining about the 1100 tough. Do you have any ideas for the production designation maybe?
 
Stuka_Hunter said:
Thanks for the answer, it seems you really know your stuff. But I think I need to clarify some things:

About the BV 222: Its not the cruising altitude that is the problem, its the climbrate. You see, in the Alps there isnt enough room to circle and gather altitude slowly (at least not for a BV 222), because at one point you are going to run into a mountain and then we have a problem. Thats why normal Bramos or Jumo 222s aint going to cut it.

I am already planning to have Me 1101 in the game, great thining about the 1100 tough. Do you have any ideas for the production designation maybe?

On BV 222 i have look into some data

RLM designation
they use assigned sequentially numerical order of model combine with abbreviation on Manufaktur
the first Jet fighter start as P.1065 in 1938 got designation by RLM as Me 262
That is Aircraft order for Luftwaffe number 262 build by Manufacture Messerschmitt (Me)
more here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RLM_aircraft_designation_system

but there are RLM number given to Messerschmitt but no aircraft connected
Me 243, Me 320, Me 327, Me 368
note on Me 327 that had to be single engine jet fighter based on Me 162 but that never was realized

Next to that are those RLM Number not use
301 to 308 and 311 to 316 and 324 to 326 then 338, finally 348

so P.1101 in 1946, Could have number beyond last order 635 like Me 636 or not used number like Me 327
 
ı have heard a bit about the MG 42 , actually touched its "successor" that so called MG-3 when ı was serving short term compulsory military service . So , it doesn't interest software writers that unproven claims about two Typhoons shot down by "precedessors" of M-61 Vulcans were reported to Eisenhower ? No problem for me at all .
 
so I look into BV222 issue

Forget the four DB 610 !
first the BV 222 is made for use of Diesel fuel, not high octane Petrol needed by DB 605 family
Next to that the DB 610 had serious, terrible problems with it's complex Gearbox.

Maybe putting BMW jet engine could help ?

back to Me 327
the RLM designation was reserve for design by Lippisch for Me 163B with Jet Engine instead rocket engine
hat it be build, it had be far better aircraft as notorious Heinkel He 162
but it was never build thanks Willi Messerschmitt who consider "Me 327" as rival to his Me 262
and in 1943 left Lippisch and his staff the Messerschmitt company
the aircraft on right would be a "Me 327"
index.php


So you could use a 3D mesh of Me 163 to build easy a fictional Me 327 for the Game

On Me 262 Variants
there were several proposal you might find interesting
by simply modified 3D mesh of Me 262

Me 262 C-2b "Heimatschützer II"
it featuring two BMW 003 TLR a Jetengine with BMW P.3395 rocket engine !

Me 262 A-1a/U4 "Pulkzerstörer"
A hair-raising idea of that little annoying austrian: remove the MG by a 50 mm autocannon
either MK 214 or BK 5 cannon

Me 262 "Schnellbomber Ia"
A bomber/reconnaissance variant with modified fuselage the Cockpit is move forward.

more here
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,6994.0.html
 
So far these planes Will be implemented:

German:

Bachem Ba 349 Natter
BV 222
Dornier P 256
Flettner Fl 282
Fw 190F-8
Ta 152
Heinkel He 162 D and E (fictional, with BMW 003 R engine)
Henschel Hs 132
Horten Ho 229
Lippisch P.13a
Me 262 Pulkzerstorer, Heimatschutzer and night fighter variants.
Me 264
Me P.1100
Me P.1101

Allies Will have mostly known designs, apart from Vultee XP-81.
 
About that 610:

Problems were only present on the He 177 afaik, that was mostly due to cramped space near the engines.

And lets say Allies would refuel the plane when it comes to Trieste. ;)

Another question: do you happen to know any books with alot of unfinished designs and blueprints?
 
Important question: just how "alternate" is this "alternate history?" At this point in 1946...
1) ... is the war still raging? And if so, how close is Germany to defeat?
2) ... did the war end in May 1945, and these are just some fanatics secretly hidden away?
3) ... did the war end sometime between May '45 and this point in '46?

If it's #1, there are all kinds of possibilities for things the Germany industry could have produced. If it's #2, there are very few options available for the secret fortress. Basically, no *new* aircraft. Just repaired and modified aircraft that existed as of May '45. Maybe new engines on old planes, but no new airframes, with the possible exception of *simple* Volksjaeger type planes.

And if the war is still going in '46, an explanation as to why could help define the state of German industry. If, say, the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor and Hitler told them they were on their own, meaning no declaration of war against the US and the US either never entered the European theater or was greatly delayed, the the Allied bombing raids on German industry would be greatly reduced or even stopped. You'd still have millions of PO'ed Russians ready to storm the gates, but without US bombers flattening the factories during the day, and with British bombers likely blasted from the sky due to unquestioned Luftwaffe air superiority, the German aviation industry would be in *far* better shape.
 
The timeline in my game would paint a picture of the last month of the war in May 1946. Factories and even airfields are hidden underground in the mountains and reserves are running low. But then again you have Allied airplanes crashlanding at your frontyard. So you can use such resources instead.

As a counter ballance for such engineering feats, I added explanation in the storyline, as constructions and stockpilling started as early as late 1943 with attacks not starting untill Berlins surrender in May 1945. Also, Rommel is still alive. :)
 
Stuka_Hunter said:
The timeline in my game would paint a picture of the last month of the war in May 1946. Factories and even airfields are hidden underground in the mountains and reserves are running low. But then again you have Allied airplanes crashlanding at your frontyard. So you can use such resources instead.

As a counter ballance for such engineering feats, I added explanation in the storyline, as constructions and stockpilling started as early as late 1943 with attacks not starting untill Berlins surrender in May 1945. Also, Rommel is still alive. :)

So Instead of a Mittelwerk (SS-factory) we got a Alpenfestung by Franz Hofer and Heinrich Himmler.
That include underground Fuel storage depot, Aircraft, V2-V1 and engine factory also fuel production
This will be just like Mittelwerk a gruesome Mass murder on slave workers who work literally to death.
of 42074 Slave worker from concentration camps 22000 died in construction and production of Mittelwerk GmbH
and only fraction of planed Installation of Mittelwerk was completed as in march 1945 the production stop

there will allot of Massgrave and furnaces in Alpenfestung
much more as Mittelwerk
 
Exactly.

I want to create a game where such things will not be hidden, as I do not intend to portray a reckless shoot-em-up game. I want to create a story. And part of such stories are also mass graves and labour camps.
 
Stuka_Hunter said:
Exactly.

I want to create a game where such things will not be hidden, as I do not intend to portray a reckless shoot-em-up game. I want to create a story. And part of such stories are also mass graves and labour camps.

I'm reassures, most WW2 Video games not bother with those "details" and focus on: Killing Spree , Rampage, Multi Kill, overkill etc.
i prefer to play Half-life 1 and 2 over those

i note that you want to use Lippisch P.13a
unique dual powerplant
A rocket engine using toxic Tonka-250 and SV-stoff*
and a Ramjet using wire-mesh basket holding coal as fuel

This will produce hellish black contrail...

*
Tonka-250 is mixture 50% triethylamine and 50% xylidine, rocketfuel with nitric acid as a hypergolic oxidizer.
SV-Stoff a mixture 94% nitric acid / 6% dinitrogen tetroxide or 85% nitric acid / 15% sulfuric acid, a hypergolic oxidizer.
 

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