Alleged Dassault VTOL tailsitter project

Jemiba

Moderator
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2006
Messages
8,361
Reaction score
1,598
More than a year ago, a participant of the french aeroforum posted photos of
model of a french tailsitter. This model is a typical desktop model, like those often
used on exhibitions, and it is said to show a Dassault design, although still yet I
couldn't find any evidence for that. Perhaps there's someone, who can identify
this design ?
 

Attachments

  • AMD_VTOL_chariot_2mini.JPG
    AMD_VTOL_chariot_2mini.JPG
    16.3 KB · Views: 767
  • AMD_VTOL_chariot_4mini.JPG
    AMD_VTOL_chariot_4mini.JPG
    13 KB · Views: 726
  • tailsitter.jpg
    tailsitter.jpg
    111.7 KB · Views: 770

elmayerle

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2006
Messages
1,442
Reaction score
327
It doesn't look familiar to me and it's not covered in the write-up of French v/stol fighter efforts on http://www/vstol.org .
 

overscan (PaulMM)

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 27, 2005
Messages
13,676
Reaction score
7,939
Agreed Evan. However, it does look remarkably like a Dassault design. Specifically it resembles the Dassault MD550 and the earliest Mirage designs. The MD550 was built in response to a request for a light fighter capable of operating from unprepared runways. Given other French companies were working on tail sitters, I imagine this should be a genuine project, not a fan model.
 

Jemiba

Moderator
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2006
Messages
8,361
Reaction score
1,598
No, it's not covered by the vstol.org paper, but it's good to hear, that this site is regarded
as a useful source ! In fact, as another form of publication for this encyclopedia is planned,
we are in the meantime busy with papers about other countries and so updating older papers
had to be postponed.
I see similarities to some Dassault designs, too, and as it probably is a design from the late '50s/
early '60s, thoughts about a tailsitter derivative of, maybe, the MD.550, seem quite logical .
On the other hand, to me it looks also similar to an updated version of the SNECMA design with
cruciform wings, which was intended as an alternative design to the Coleoptere.
 

Attachments

  • SNECMA-alternative.jpg
    SNECMA-alternative.jpg
    40.5 KB · Views: 643

overscan (PaulMM)

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 27, 2005
Messages
13,676
Reaction score
7,939
Its good to hear its not dead- the site hasn't been updated in years.

There are similarities to the SNECMA design as well, though its obviously missing the ventral fin. Well, at least we agree its French ;)
 

TinWing

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2006
Messages
896
Reaction score
116
overscan said:
There are similarities to the SNECMA design as well, though its obviously missing the ventral fin. Well, at least we agree its French ;)

The absence of a ventral fin might indicated that this tailsitter was intended for a conventional horizontal landing?
 

elmayerle

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2006
Messages
1,442
Reaction score
327
overscan said:
Agreed Evan. However, it does look remarkably like a Dassault design. Specifically it resembles the Dassault MD550 and the earliest Mirage designs. The MD550 was built in response to a request for a light fighter capable of operating from unprepared runways. Given other French companies were working on tail sitters, I imagine this should be a genuine project, not a fan model.

Oh, I'll agree. After all, the Nord 1600 Friffon I isn't in the paper either, though it's mentioned in the v/stol section of the AIAA's website and it was the predecessor of the Griffon II. *smile* I've thought of using the Merlin Griffon II to model the Griffon I, can't think of many other uses for a Merlin kit. ;)
 

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
28,542
Reaction score
6,269
I think that,


I solve this mystery,may be it was Morane-Saulnier MS.1010,a VTOL
version of MS.1000,and note its early design from the book Les Avions
De Combat Francais I.
 

Attachments

  • 1.JPG
    1.JPG
    6.9 KB · Views: 437

Jemiba

Moderator
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2006
Messages
8,361
Reaction score
1,598
Of course that would be a sensation especially for me and my passion for Morane Saulnier,
but I'm afraid it's not, although the side view shows some similarities. But the MS.1000 had
a wing with a typical heart shaped planform, very different from the unknown tailsitter.
And as long as the list of Morane Saulnier designations and projects isn't really incomplete,
the only trip into the field of VTOL was with the Statodyne designs and this surely isn't one
of them.
But it was good to mentione the MS.1000. Following the method of Sherlock Holmes, we just
have to eliminate all false points and what's still there in the end has to be the truth ! ;)
 

Retrofit

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
Feb 21, 2007
Messages
614
Reaction score
163
Could it be an early study of the SNECMA AP519 project, before the adoption of the strange and complex tilting landing gear system (similar with the FW-860 project)?
 

toura

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
Apr 12, 2008
Messages
1,207
Reaction score
153
HI all
This is from an old"le fana de l'aviation"
Dassault don't know !!!!
 

Attachments

  • Scan2.pdf
    368 KB · Views: 91

Michel Van

ACCESS: Above Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
5,453
Reaction score
2,656
toura said:
HI all
This is from an old"le fana de l'aviation"
Dassault don't know !!!!



the French text say:
that is model was sell to Jc Carbonel, labeled as "projet VTOL Dassault"
the model is 13 cm long made from metal and wood, it's trailer made from metal
no mark or labels from maker on this professional make model


At Dassault was there perplex about the model because, they no have information about this project
 

Similar threads

Top