Airbus ZEROe (Zero Emissions) Aircraft Concepts

RavenOne

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galgot

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Interesting. And nice renders.
Wonder what is the use of that small blade at the top of the fin on the concept on the foreground :
ZEROe concept aircraft - Patrol Flight.jpg
 

TomcatViP

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Static pressure or vent for tanks?

1280px-North_American_X-15_Nozzle.jpg
 

coanda

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If only they had the balls to do the BWB...I might even go through it as a design project myself.
 

Archibald

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And where does all the hydrogen goes ?

because the usual hydrogen aircraft rather looks like this

9403_O.jpg


2.5 more volume for the same mass, and it can't go into the wings...

h2airplane.jpg


This of course is for liquid hydrogen fed into classic turbofans. Now, does lithium batteries or fuel cells or something else, changed that ? Or maybe that clever REL trick to turn ammonia into LH2 ?
 

galgot

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And where does all the hydrogen goes ?

because the usual hydrogen aircraft rather looks like this

9403_O.jpg


2.5 more volume for the same mass, and it can't go into the wings...
For the A320 and ATRish lookalike I think it would be in the rear fuselage , after the last passenger door.
"The liquid hydrogen storage and distribution system is located behind the rear pressure bulkhead. "
For the BWB they say :
"The liquid hydrogen storage tanks are stored underneath the wings."
But I don't really understand what that mean, cause I see no tanks there. Maybe in the outer part on the "fat" BWB body ?

Also the BWB text mention "two hybrid hydrogen turbofan engines provide thrust."
And I see height fans intakes in two fairings there...
 

Archibald

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I think the key is that it is NOT a straight swap "hydrogen instead of kerosene".

Seems that they use electric motors to boost the turbofans and massively improve their efficiency.

The electricity for the motors would come, either from batteries, or from hydrogen fuel cells.

So hydrogen would be used two different ways

- burn straight into the turbofans, as kerosene

- hydrogen feed fuel cells, which provide electricity to big electric motors which boost the turbofans.
 

TomS

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Static pressure or vent for tanks?

Yes I expect it will be for venting - this was done for the russian project in the 90s.

That was my guess as well. But it's interesting that they don't have a similar structure (at least an obvious one) on the prop or blended wing-body designs.
 

coanda

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Static pressure or vent for tanks?

Yes I expect it will be for venting - this was done for the russian project in the 90s.

That was my guess as well. But it's interesting that they don't have a similar structure (at least an obvious one) on the prop or blended wing-body designs.


The wingtips would be my guess for the BWB. For the Turboprop it would probably be up the fin again.

I suspect they are thinking cryogenic hydrogen, similar to the cryo Hydrogen/LNG used on the Tu-155 (the 'russian project' which was actually end of the 80s rather than the 90s)

FYI - some info on the Tu-155



This was discussed on the Airbus intranet a while ago when the Maveric was revealed.

I really want them to do a Maveric type design. We'll see, as I say, I don't think there is the appetite to take on the assumed 'risk'.
 

TomcatViP

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To complement (as I was writing this simultaneously):

For the prop model, logic tells me it's because they already have a high mounted tail (the vents/static pressure would be in the rear fairing of the tail cone).
With the low tail, there is not enough clearance to put that in the tail cone (runway strike). Hence the Eiffel/Snorkel mount.
 

coanda

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And where does all the hydrogen goes ?

because the usual hydrogen aircraft rather looks like this

/snip

2.5 more volume for the same mass, and it can't go into the wings...
For the A320 and ATRish lookalike I think it would be in the rear fuselage , after the last passenger door.
"The liquid hydrogen storage and distribution system is located behind the rear pressure bulkhead. "
For the BWB they say :
"The liquid hydrogen storage tanks are stored underneath the wings."
But I don't really understand what that mean, cause I see no tanks there. Maybe in the outer part on the "fat" BWB body ?

Also the BWB text mention "two hybrid hydrogen turbofan engines provide thrust."
And I see height fans intakes in two fairings there...

I think the BWB concept is incomplete - what you see on top of the fuselage are electric ring fans in my estimation. These fans will not provide adequate thrust for takeoff/climb. I think that there is one or two (I would think two engines still, although you could get away with one but the failure rates are still too high) high bypass fans missing.
 

TomS

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One thing I'm thinking is that the use case here isn't quite the same as a normal fuel dump mast. A normal dump only gets used occasionally, and pretty much only while in flight. Assuming cryo fuel, LH2 is going to be constantly boiling off as it warms up (like while sitting on the ground), so they'll have a fairly steady flow of excess gaseous hydrogen to get rid of, and they probably want to dump that above the aircraft so it can just dissipate into the atmosphere instead of blowing into ground equipment, baggage handlers, etc. Hence the choice to vent at the top of the tail fin instead of blowing it out the tailcone or similar.
 

coanda

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One thing I'm thinking is that the use case here isn't quite the same as a normal fuel dump mast. A normal dump only gets used occasionally, and pretty much only while in flight. Assuming cryo fuel, LH2 is going to be constantly boiling off as it warms up (like while sitting on the ground), so they'll have a fairly steady flow of excess gaseous hydrogen to get rid of, and they probably want to dump that above the aircraft so it can just dissipate into the atmosphere instead of blowing into ground equipment, baggage handlers, etc. Hence the choice to vent at the top of the tail fin instead of blowing it out the tailcone or similar.

Yes, the mast is for venting gases only.
 

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