Advance Ariane 5 studies from 1990s

Michel Van

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ESA made in beginn 1990 several study for advance Ariane 5 rocket, what let to big Ariane super lourd concept 1991

also they study this interesting Idea
Ariane 5 with TWO Vulcain (HM60) engines with each 800 kN thrust and 220 tons fuel in EPC

The Idea behind the concept is this Problem:
after the solid booster are drop, the acceleration falls 1.18G from to 0.74 G!
This is because Vulcan 1 has thrust of only 1145 kN (vac) lower as rest mass of rocket.
that fault founds in the original design of Ariane 5 who had much lower Payload. but Hermes became heavy, so HM60 replace by Vulcain 1 and they accepted gravity drag temporary.
what let to the R&D on Vulcain 2 engine for Ariane 5 ECA

Back to Ariane 5 with 2x Vulcain (HM60) engines and 1600 kN thrust what reduce the gravity drag, also the wished thrust for R&D on future Vulcain 3
The source tell about EPC 210 stage, that's 50t more fuel as EPC155 would make the EPC210 - 38 meter high.
but this problematic for the EAP Solid Booster with 31 meter length to fit on ECP210

Source:
Flug Revue Nr 9 September 1993 page 56

Got some one more Info on this Ariane 5 version ?
 
i made more calculation on Ariane 5 with 2 x Vulcain (HM60)
the EPC must use super cooled fuel (LOX at 1,24 and LH2 at 0,076 gr/cubic centimeter)
what reduce the high of ECP210 to 32 meters compare to standard ECP with 31 meters

The scann picture show Models of Ariane 5, left the Two engine version right the Super lourd concept
behind are two standard Ariane 5 with payload Fairing in diverse length (12 and 17 meter)?

The small rocket in middel is DAL or ALD
Dérivé Léger d'Ariane/Ariane Light Design for low cost launcher for medium payloads by french CNES.
Build from Solid Boosters the EAP 230 as first stage, second P85 is short version of EAP and P30 or H10 as third stage. also it use Ariane 4 payload Fairing.
if all tree stages are Solid, a fourth stage L6 (similar to Ariane 5 EPS stage) is used.
DAL-S 3500kg into Sun-synchronous orbit of 800 km
DAL-P 1000 kg into 1000km high orbit, use only P85 and P30 and L6 sound familiar ? that's almost VEGA launch rocket
by the way the DAL had to launch french Military satellite

in 1993 ESA look themselves on medium launch rocket ELS: European Small Launcher
they wanted R&D new Solid booster P50 and P7 and use them on EAP 230 or P50 as first stage
1000 kg in Sun-synchronous orbit of 700 km P50/P50/P7
3500 kg in Sun-synchronous orbit of 700 km P230/P50/P7

in 1998 ESA study the combination EAP230 with VEGA as upper stages.

But in end ESA management not take the proposals, instead they went in Join venture with Russia Soyuz rocket launch from Kourou
the major reason was France need to launch Military satellite in Sun-synchronous orbit, who were to heavy for VEGA.

During "Ariane 2010" study the concept again as "Half Ariane 5 Soild"
a EAP 260 booster (extends 2 more Segment) as First stage, second stage a EAP 130 single segment, Thrid stage cryogen stage.
and Ariane 5 short payload Fairing.
Payload 5,5~6 tons into GTO

also study under Next Genration Launcher was the BBPH Building Block: Powder Hydrogene
First stage: a advance EAP with 250 tons fuel, Second stage: advance P80 80~100 tons fuel, third stage H28 with Vinci engine
Payload 3 tons in GTO
with use of P23 soild stap on Booster 5 tons inGTO with 2 P23, 8t in GTO with 6Xp23 booster

Picture source
Flug Revue Nr 9 September 1993 page 56

Source On DLA, ELS, HAS and BBPH and P230/Vega
Europäische Trägerraketen Band 2 by Bernd Leitenberger ISBN-13: 978-3-8391-0165-0
 

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I've checked "Europe's space programme" (by Brian Harvey), but this has no info on advanced Ariane 5 concepts from the 1990s.
 
Hobbes said:
I've checked "Europe's space programme" (by Brian Harvey), but this has no info on advanced Ariane 5 concepts from the 1990s.

There not much information about them
i lock true allot Flug Revue magazine until i found two picture with info

here the Ariane super lourd concept aka ESA moon rocket.
1874 ton launch weight.
it use 4 EAP230 booster
second stage is almost Shuttle ET size: the H620 with five Vulcain engine
The third stage is shorten EPC stage called H70 with one Vulicain engine
this rocket is capable to launch 35 tons to moon from GTO
Payload in LEO would be around 90 tons

Source Picture:
Flug Revue

Source: data
Europäische Trägerraketen Band 2 by Bernd Leitenberger ISBN-13: 978-3-8391-0165-0
 

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You know it's funny. I was on NASA Spaceflight Forum the other night, and I swear I saw a similar vehicle in the the thread about future Chinese HLVs.

Check out Response 101:
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=8447.90
 
XP67_Moonbat said:
You know it's funny. I was on NASA Spaceflight Forum the other night, and I swear I saw a similar vehicle in the the thread about future Chinese HLVs.

Check out Response 101:
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=8447.90


beware of foreign exchange student, who make tons of photocopy, use the Fax machine for hour's
and send giga byte big Emails to home...
 
Michel Van said:
ESA made in beginn 1990 several study for advance Ariane 5 rocket, what let to big Ariane super lourd concept 1991
also they study this interesting Idea
Ariane 5 with TWO Vulcain (HM60) engines with each 800 kN thrust and 220 tons fuel in EPC
...

Thanks for that. Such paired Vulcain's could launch the smaller Ariane 5 "G" core stage at 158 mT propellant load as an SSTO.
For the later Ariane 5 "E" version at 170 mT propellant load you would need three Vulcains for the SSTO, and this would also suffice for the 220 mT load version you mention.

c.f.,

A low cost, all European, manned launcher.
« on: March 09, 2012, 07:14:49 pm »
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,14692.msg146544.html#msg146544
 
Ariane 5 with TWO Vulcain (HM60) engines with each 800 kN thrust and 220 tons fuel in EPC
And this 2 vulcain Ariane 5 was also Itself doubled in a 1989-1991 CNES study

From Philippe Jamet, "Ariane 5 et le vol habite”, 1996

. Long before these studies, however, there were already plans in the pipeline to make Ariane 5 derivatives important vehicles for manned flight. In the early 90s, Ariane 5 was seen as the backbone of further developments, envisaged as follows:

- either a conventional launcher, operational between 2015 and 2020 and designed around a system of 4 boosters and a main cryogenic stage, this time equipped with 4 fourth-generation engines derived from the HM-60. This solution, which could be further improved by the introduction of methane engines, was presented at the 1989 IAF congress by CNES engineer Johnson and ESA's Jean-François Lieberherr. In some respects, it is similar to the solution proposed by Roger Vignelles (ex CNES and ex SEP), and would bring us into the 40 to 60-ton class of launchers, with the possibility of putting a large vertical-launch shuttle into low-Earth orbit.

- or a partially recoverable two-stage launcher (with the exception of two small liquid hydrogen tanks flanking the second stage) inspired by the studies on the Taranis concept carried out at Aérospatiale by Patrick Eymar's team. The advantages of this solution would be to build the launcher around several Vulcain engines derived from the propulsion system of the current Ariane 5, to provide greater flexibility than a conventional launcher, and to offer possibilities for a manned version.

The second is Taranis (described in French Secret Project 3 book) but the former was a shown in the paper "ARIANE 5: A MATURE DEVELOPMENT PROGRAMME" 1989/1991



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The small launchers can also be seen as a early iteration of the Dérivé léger Ariane (DLA)/European small launcher (ESL) of the early-mid 90s
 
I seem to remember an "Ariane M" as a pre-PROTIEN HLLV

Not Energia M mind you---that was a Soviet A5 really.
 
I seem to remember an "Ariane M" as a pre-PROTIEN HLLV

Not Energia M mind you---that was a Soviet A5 really.
Ariane M was, i think, a mars society proposal.

There was a ESA HLLV study from 2005 that had a mega-Ariane 5 too, this was esa-sanctioned at least. Never found a render of it

1E75A78E-29A6-420B-AF40-55FEF6FE0436.jpeg
 
It's a shame it never got to launch the Hermes.


If you're building Hermes, already a technologically complete and polyvalent spacecraft, and a Mega-Ariane 5 like those in this thread, then the cost of building a true Buran/Shuttle scale Hermes is not that much more! So why not go all the way...

After all, the whole A5+Hermes system would have, had it gone to completion and according to 1992 hermes estimates, cost over $33 billion in 2023USD by the time Hermes would have been operational, if you've got that amount of money, what's a bit more...
 
Associated paper with your attached pictures in the attachments
 

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A source that I think had been neglected: the Internal newspapers of the SEP.

SEP Inter April 1994 (courtesy of Franck Laidin on twitter)

SEP_Inter_85-Avril_1994-Notre_vision_du_futur_page-0001.jpg
SEP_Inter_85-Avril_1994-Notre_vision_du_futur_page-0003.jpg
SEP_Inter_85-Avril_1994-Notre_vision_du_futur_page-0004.jpg
SEP_Inter_85-Avril_1994-Notre_vision_du_futur_page-0005.jpg
SEP_Inter_85-Avril_1994-Notre_vision_du_futur_page-0006.jpg
This one is cleaner... I'll machine translate it later.

Notably, it mentions the MCA (Moteur Cryogenique Avancé, Advanced Cryogenic Engine) program, the early closed cycle Hydrolox program, that ran alongside RECORD (Joint study of Energomash engines) and would eventually give the MC150 project (150 kN expender cycle engine), which became the MESCO/VESCO engine, renamed to Vinci, upgraded to 155, 170 and then 180 kN, and which will - at last! - launch this year, 30 years after this article.
---
SEP Inter February 1993
SEP5Q11993.jpg


But beyond traditional commercial applications, we must think of more distant ambitious missions. The elements of Ariane 5 allow the construction without great difficulty of a heavy launcher with a view to a return to the Moon or a European space laboratory program and possibly exploration missions
This launcher would be made of a cryogenic main stage powered by 5 Vulcain engines and flanked by 4 P230 Solid Propellant Engines identical to those of Ariane 5. Above, a cryogenic upper stage would be powered by a single Vulcain. The latter, which would start up in a vacuum and operate permanently in this environment, would require additional specific development.
Based on the technologies developed for propulsion of the Ariane 5, the SEP and its European cooperators are able to respond to discernible needs... pending attractive economic conditions. By maintaining its technical skills and having existing industrial intrastructures, the world of european space propulsion - including SEP - is ready to very quickly satisfy future demand and respond to possible developments in Ariane 5

Comparison: Ariane 5/Heavy Launcher
Ariane 5Heavy launcher
CoreCryogenic stage, 155t of propellant, Vulcain engine, Upper stage L9.7Cryogenic stage, 620t of propellant, 5 Vulcain 2 engines, Cryogenic Upper stage, 70t of propellant, 1 Vulcain 2 Engine
Boosters2 P2304 P230
Gross Lift Off Mass800t1900t

---SEP Inter Q4 1993 'Ariane 5-derived launchers"
s-l16004.jpg

Two derivatives, whose capabilities would be lower than those of Ariane 5, could be considered, with the basic propulsion of the Solid Propellant Engine (MPS) of Ariane 5. The DLA-S, Light Derivative of Ariane for SSO satellites, would use 3 solid propellant motors on its first three stages and a storable liquid propellant motor in its upper part. The first stage is made up of an Ariane 5 MPS, the P230, with its 230 tonnes of powder and its 3 m composite nozzle at the divergent outlet. The second stage is a shortened version of the P230, with only part of the structure (2 cylindrical segments) and a reduced nozzle but using the same technologies. Called P85, it will be loaded with 85 tons of powder. The 3rd stage. P30, whose structural mass will have an important role in the overall performance of the launcher, will use the most advanced technologies. Their possibilities have been demonstrated in French military programs: a wound-tank with carbon reinforcement and a specially adapted nozzle. The propulsion of the upper part is very close to that of the upper stage of Ariane. The DLA-S could be launched from ELA-3, Ariane 5 launch base in Guyana
The DLA-P version; P for small (petit) launcher, is simply obtained from the DLA-S by removing the P230 first stage. This could have the mission of launching satellites up to one ton into polar orbit at 1000 km

Heavy Launcher
This Super-Ariane 5, which could be a transportation vehicle to the moon - a subject of scientific focus for the ESA -, or a cargo or crew transport vehicle. This launcher would be propelled by 5 Vulcain engine and 4 MPS, the second stage would use a Vulcain. Its size would impressive: 8.2m diameter and 40m tall for its first stage alone. The total height of the launcher, using the same fairing as an Ariane 5, would be about 74m

---SEP Extreme June 1996

LanceurComplementaireArianeExtremeJuin1996.jpg

Ariane Complementary Launchers
As a market for Polar launches of satellite constellations appear, Ariane 5, optimised for Geostationary orbit dual launches, cannot efficiently answer it. This is why Industrials are proposing to self-fund a range of Ariane Complementary Launchers derived from Ariane 5

Reusing as much existing hardware as possible
The basic idea is to apply proven technologies and to reuse as much as possible existing hardware and infrastructure. Particularly to fullfill the need to launch "4 tons in a 700 km polar orbit", it is possible to design a LCA (Ariane Complementary Launcher) launcher whose first stage is based on the the EAP P230 of Ariane 5. Its second stage could be a P85 derived from the P230. It would also be possible to fill the need to launch small scientific satellites in a simple and economical way with a LCA 1 derived from the LCA 4. Such a launcher, using the LCA 4 upper stages without the P230 stage, would indeed be capable to launch 1 ton to 700 km polar orbit
 
"Satellite constellations" at the time didn't mean "starlink broadband internet" but "satellite phones". However GSM, ground antennas and the dotcom bubble burst of 2000 killed it. Satellite constellations would not return until 2007 with Greg Wyler OneWeb. And Starlink thereafters.
 
A similar (potentially related) promotional concept of a EAP-boosted VTVL Reusable core similar to the second-to-right launcher from a 90s Arianespace brochure for the Bourget.


"To conquer space and exploit all its promises, one first has to leave Earth. Today with Ariane 4, Tomorrow with Ariane 5 and its derivatives, Europe has more and more powerful and cheaper space transportation means at its disposal. Later, astonishing reusable launchers will be made: Single stage rockets capable of vertically landing back on Earth, spaceplanes using the air's oxygen before turning into rockets, then landing back on conventional runways.
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Seems to be a persistent pattern in ESA - the French have all the visions of grandeur, while all the Germans have is the cold hard cash... Glad I'm not subsidizing this dysfunctional parasitic relationship with my taxpayer money anymore...
 
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