KAI ADEX 2021 (Korean air show)

litzj

litzj

BLOG : http://jaesan-aero.blogspot.com/
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Still, there is no thread for the ADEX, then, I will start ADEX thread for 2019's.

This air-show started its 1st demo at 1996.

I have uploaded several images of 2019 ADEX in my blog and see link


https://jaesan-aero.blogspot.com/2019/10/adex-2019-korea-part-1-internal-booth.html

https://jaesan-aero.blogspot.com/2019/10/adex-2019-korea-part-2-external-display.html

https://jaesan-aero.blogspot.com/2019/10/adex-2019-korea-part-3-70th-year.html

https://jaesan-aero.blogspot.com/2019/10/adex-2019-korea-part-4-rokaf-black.html


If you have any images of ADEX, please share it, even old ones.
 
Wonderful pictures! Thank you for sharing them here.
 
Thanks! I had high hopes for the KUS-FS spec sheet, but endurance 00 hours, MTOW 000kg?! Not your fault of course :)

Interesting construction on that F/A-50 stabilator!
 
Just Brief Info. (Not serious or analysis)

1) Tilt-rotor - targeting market for both regional UAM and military purpose

2) 4 engined trainer - targeting for replacement of KT-1, aged about 20yrs

3) High speed Helicopter - it is like S-97 Raider - entirely new class for ROK

4) KF-21 - not shown in this video, KF-21 Naval is recently considered, and baseline version is under ground test
 
^ I wonder why they would want 4 engines over 1? is it using some kind of electrical engine? or do they want some kind of battle field redundancy? (may be a bit much).

also good catch on the naval KF21.. i wonder if this is trying ot Push Korea to a larger carrier design?
i wonder if this is something India can jump on too.
 
helmutkohl said:
^ I wonder why they would want 4 engines over 1? is it using some kind of electrical engine? or do they want some kind of battle field redundancy? (may be a bit much).
Click to expand...
It's meant to be electric. Though I would hope that ny the time they cut metal (or carbon fibre...) they could reduce down to 1 or 2 engines.
 
The mass and balance of that thing is to be an interesting exercise to solve... I have no idea what they intend to put inside the aft fuselage to make some counter weights but that could well be the the perfect ride to go shopping for Christmas with the lady!
 
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GTX said:
helmutkohl said:
^ I wonder why they would want 4 engines over 1? is it using some kind of electrical engine? or do they want some kind of battle field redundancy? (may be a bit much).
Click to expand...
It's meant to be electric. Though I would hope that ny the time they cut metal (or carbon fibre...) they could reduce down to 1 or 2 engines.
Click to expand...
Spreading the thrust out along the wing via multiple small engines may have some advantages in the area of blown wings/flaps. Certainly seems to be fairly common in the eVTOL projects out there.
 
The fashion of presenting constantly new and new concepts in the form of PR videos and models is already getting a little frustrating. Where are the previous ones? Isn't it better to look out for real iron?
 
TomcatViP said:
The mass and balance of that thing is to be an interesting exercise to solve... I have no idea what they intend to put inside the aft fuselage to make some balance but that could well be the the perfect ride to go shopping for Christmas with the lady!
Click to expand...
The balance is precisely why they went from 1 nose mounted turboprop to 4 wing mounted electrical engines.
The whole idea of that trainer is to reuse much of existing aerodynamic development and then, while keeping the weight distribution within limits, achieve electrical propulsion.

If they tried just putting in one big electromotor for one big prop in the nose - then the balance would be way off as batteries would have to be placed elsewhere and it'd screw up the balance.

But by replacing the turboprop in the nose with most of the battery weight, the designers managed to distribute the remainder of the weight mostly alongside the axis that goes through the center of gravity. That weight is distributed on the wings (both via engines and some batteries) and alongside the cabin.
 
DWG said:
Spreading the thrust out along the wing via multiple small engines may have some advantages in the area of blown wings/flaps. Certainly seems to be fairly common in the eVTOL projects out there.
Click to expand...
More to do with engine power at this stage I would say. If you were to use equivalent trainers for comparison you are looking at engine powers in the range of 700 - 1200kw. Taking aerospace grade electric motors these days are at best in the 400 - 500kw range plus presumably quite a bit of extra weight (presumably) then one is probably trying to use multiple engines to get the appropriate power/weight performance.
 
helmutkohl said:
indeed a lot of the designs looked very derivative..
there was one KAI UCAV one that looked a lot like the Dassault Neuron
Click to expand...

Or the electric trainer which, apart from the distributed propulsion, looks not a little like a PC-21.
 
helmutkohl said:
^ I wonder why they would want 4 engines over 1? is it using some kind of electrical engine? or do they want some kind of battle field redundancy? (may be a bit much).

also good catch on the naval KF21.. i wonder if this is trying ot Push Korea to a larger carrier design?
i wonder if this is something India can jump on too.
Click to expand...
I also wonder why they choose four rather than one or two.
950hp engine can be replaced by smaller number of engines though.

My guess is they choose 100% Korean based electric motor but not sure.
Design of the basic trainer is not matured yet, so configuration can be changed later



KF-21 Naval does not mean enlarged carrier for ROK Navy. They (I mean Navy and Industries) probably start serious study for CV and Naval Aircraft soon, and final size will be determined.
Size of CV is probably determined by F-35B vs KF-21N battle.


All of these are my guess now
 
litzj said:
helmutkohl said:
^ I wonder why they would want 4 engines over 1? is it using some kind of electrical engine? or do they want some kind of battle field redundancy? (may be a bit much).

also good catch on the naval KF21.. i wonder if this is trying ot Push Korea to a larger carrier design?
i wonder if this is something India can jump on too.
Click to expand...
I also wonder why they choose four rather than one or two.
950hp engine can be replaced by smaller number of engines though.

My guess is they choose 100% Korean based electric motor but not sure.
Design of the basic trainer is not matured yet, so configuration can be changed later



KF-21 Naval does not mean enlarged carrier for ROK Navy. They (I mean Navy and Industries) probably start serious study for CV and Naval Aircraft soon, and final size will be determined.
Size of CV is probably determined by F-35B vs KF-21N battle.


All of these are my guess now
Click to expand...

If it is indeed all electric based motors.. then this new trainer is something I'd be very interested in.. not often you see this!
but I wonder if having two/four engines spread on the wings..changes any of the flight dynamics, especially when trying to simulate combat aircraft which usually have one or two (next to each other).

F-35B vs KF-21N is also going to be another interesting one..
what do you think the likely displacement would be?

I personally hope that if they are going to do STOBAR, why not go all the way and do CATOBAR.
 
That's true of course, but the empennage configuration is fairly distinctive usually and this is a really close match for the PC-21. Much closer than the KT-1, which itself rather resembles the (early model) PC-9, so in a way it would continue a trend I guess.
 
www.flightglobal.com

KAI promotes futuristic concepts at Seoul ADEX

In a series of promotional videos at the Seoul ADEX show, Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) has shown range of innovative aircraft ideas.
www.flightglobal.com www.flightglobal.com

TLDR:
NI-500 Tiltrotor
Black Kite trainer >1600hp and KF-21/FA-50 compatible cockpit
Unmanned FA-50
K-UCAV with internal weapon bays
Urban Air Mobility concept,135kts, 54nm range, 5 seats or 600kg cargo

www.flightglobal.com

KAI/IAI in new loitering munitions development pact

Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) and Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) have signed an additional memorandum of understanding (MOU) for a loitering munitions programme.
www.flightglobal.com www.flightglobal.com
 
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While it is likely that a lot of these concepts may never go beyond the CG stage..
isnt it really impressive to see how far the Korean aerospace industry has come?

For a while it was just limited to basic training aircraft
and now we have full blown fighter aircraft, including one that has the potential to be 5th gen, helicopters, domestic AESA radars, and even a desire to build a transport aircraft.

They've made some very strong market gains in Southeast Asia and the Middle-east, and I wouldn't be surprised if even some European countries, especially those in the east, may consider these aircrafts!
 
Don't forget though that there has been assistance from outside as well though. This is not to downplay their achievements but just to make sure full context is there.
 
helmutkohl said:
While it is likely that a lot of these concepts may never go beyond the CG stage..
isnt it really impressive to see how far the Korean aerospace industry has come?

For a while it was just limited to basic training aircraft
and now we have full blown fighter aircraft, including one that has the potential to be 5th gen, helicopters, domestic AESA radars, and even a desire to build a transport aircraft.

They've made some very strong market gains in Southeast Asia and the Middle-east, and I wouldn't be surprised if even some European countries, especially those in the east, may consider these aircrafts!
Click to expand...

This is undoubtedly true, the prospects are great. But the current reality is that even the development of such a thing as MALE UAV is not completed even after ten years. The launch of serial production of KUS-FS will certainly be more beneficial than a hundred CG videos and exhibited concepts.
 
KF-21N vs F-35B is not only engineer-military problem also political
: Acceptance for F-35B by US Gov., Ski-jump vs Catapult from US or Korean Own, and much more.
So it is not easy to be judged now.
 
litzj said:
KF-21N vs F-35B is not only engineer-military problem also political
: Acceptance for F-35B by US Gov., Ski-jump vs Catapult from US or Korean Own, and much more.
So it is not easy to be judged now.
Click to expand...

I am pretty confident that KF-21N is not happening. In fact, if militaristically more competent cool-heads of the (future) Korean government prevail at the end, the Korean aircraft carrier might not happen at all. The aircraft carrier acquisition plan of ROKN is riddled with contradictions and unanswered questions. It seems like the project itself is initiated to satisify some people's ego rather than fulfil the actual strategic needs of the Korean Navy which has limited resources and should seek cost-effective deterrents to PRC, North Korea and potentially Japan.
 
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A few more talking points from Hanwha Aerospace Q&A @ADEX 2021

The company plans to domestically develop
1. 5500lbs low bypass turbofan engine for UAV (assuming for KUS-X)
2. 8000lbs high bypass turbofan engine
3. 20,000lbs turbofan engine with AB
in the future

Given that Hanwha Aerospace claims that they will manufacture GE F414 under license with only 40% domestic parts for KF-21, I remain spectical how competent Hanwha Aerospace is at developing indigenous turbofan engines with max. thrust of 20,000lbs. I mean I am sure they could build one, but I am not confident how reliable & serviceable the engine would be.
 
SgtGungHo said:
remain spectical how competent Hanwha Aerospace is at developing indigenous turbofan engines with max. thrust of 20,000lbs. I mean I am sure they could build one, but I am not confident how reliable & serviceable the engine would be.
Click to expand...
It will be interesting. They have been involved with maintaining gas turbines (initially J85s) since 1980 before also moving to engine assembly in the mid-late 1980s with first the F100 and then later the F404 around 15 - 20yrs ago. They also produce some sub-assemblies/components I believe. Therefore, the theoretical basis is probably there. That said, doing a full up clean sheet (or clean computer screen...;)) design is another step. It will be interesting to see if they do it alone or in partnership with someone like GE.
 
www.flightglobal.com

Korean Air inks helicopter MRO, UAV pacts with Boeing

Korean Air has signed memorandums of understanding (MoUs) with Boeing related to helicopter upgrade work and the development of new unmanned air vehicles (UAVs).
www.flightglobal.com www.flightglobal.com

TLDR:
Korean Air and Boeing teaming on AH-64 and C-47 MRO work. And separately Korean Air and Boeing Insitu teaming to develop a light VTOL UAV, with some details and a pic of the KUS-VS.
 
82659_kusvs_483003.jpg


What an odd configuration. Seems the blades are doubled for each engine, with one set axially mounted (push pull) and another one vertically (vertical lift). Then to make the transition from vertical to horizontal, they have to use a pusher prop aft mounted on the fuselage with its own ICE engine!* (and charge the batteries)

At last, the level of innovation is impressive for such a relatively small country. Something we would like to see in Europe...

*the rotation discs otherwise would intersect.
 
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TomcatViP said:
the level of innovation is impressive for such a relatively small country. Something we would like to see in Europe...
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South Korea's physically compact (about a third the size of Italy), but a population of 50m and the tenth ranked world economy mean it's easily comparable with the major European powers.
 

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