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A smaller Sea Slug

zen

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RAE had hopes of shrinking Sea Slug down from 20ft long, 16" diameter and wingspan of 4ft 10" to a missile of 15ft length, 12" diameter and 3ft 7" wingspan.

Assuming this had been achieved.....
It would ease demands on launcher and missile handling gear. It should also permit a greater number of missiles to be stored on a County type DDG.

This would mesh nicely with the alternative arm launchers and the later Orange Nell.
 

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In what time-frame? Done late enough, all this does is demand a complete redesign of the entire launcher and handling space architecture.
 
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zen

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In what time-frame? Done late enough, all this does is demand a complete redesign of the entire launcher and handling space architecture.
I think it's 1948 that this estimation is produced. So early enough to see Girdleness firing this instead by '58.
 

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Because vertical storage is much more acceptable if it's just 2 decks high.
And arguably being that compact favours this over Thunderbird, even if it is a beam rider.
Arguably then more funds and capacity for increased production of 901 sets. Army version being much lighter without maritime features.
 

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In what time-frame? Done late enough, all this does is demand a complete redesign of the entire launcher and handling space architecture.
I think it's 1948 that this estimation is produced. So early enough to see Girdleness firing this instead by '58.
Oh in that case, fine. It would be interesting to learn why this goal was not in fact achieved.
 
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zen

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In what time-frame? Done late enough, all this does is demand a complete redesign of the entire launcher and handling space architecture.
I think it's 1948 that this estimation is produced. So early enough to see Girdleness firing this instead by '58.
Oh in that case, fine. It would be interesting to learn why this goal was not in fact achieved.
Absolutely!
Could be a mixture about doubts on guidance/warhead effectiveness and the change to solid fuel.
 

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The thing I find interesting about the US 3T programme is that Terrier arose directly out of a weaponized test vehicle. The British fired RTV.1Q with a live warhead and got a drone kill, and CTV.1 against canvas-and-netting targets with direct hit potential demonstrated in the surface to surface role, but seem not to have taken the same road. RTV.1 was 16ft long, 9 inches in diameter, and weighed 500lb; however, it did use liquid propellant and would have run up against the development problems this entailed (including the development of a solid-fuel alternative and internal layout rearrangements to accommodate the typical-for-the-era centrally located motor). That being said, the relatively small size with a nominal slant range of 46k ft to an altitude of 40k ft suggests that Sea Slug could indeed have been substantially smaller than it actually was.
 
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zen

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The thing I find interesting about the US 3T programme is that Terrier arose directly out of a weaponized test vehicle. The British fired RTV.1Q with a live warhead and got a drone kill, and CTV.1 against canvas-and-netting targets with direct hit potential demonstrated in the surface to surface role, but seem not to have taken the same road. RTV.1 was 16ft long, 9 inches in diameter, and weighed 500lb; however, it did use liquid propellant and would have run up against the development problems this entailed (including the development of a solid-fuel alternative and internal layout rearrangements to accommodate the typical-for-the-era centrally located motor). That being said, the relatively small size with a nominal slant range of 46k ft to an altitude of 40k ft suggests that Sea Slug could indeed have been substantially smaller than it actually was.
I would guess they increased range and warhead size to get to 12" despite cutting length by a foot to 15ft.
 

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Of course it might have been possible to run tests between the dangers of liquid and solid rockets on ship. Decades later this was evaluated as not much difference between the options. See liquid Martel.
 

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Redesigning County for your alt Seaslug doesnt make much difference to its survival. A frigate sized AA ship like T42 is all the RN can afford if it wants to build 14. Anything bigger and you are down to 6-8 hulls like T45.
Seaslug serves from 1962 to 1983 which is not bad for such a first gen system. The Countys cram in as much as you can on that design: 2 gun/1plus SSM and helo.
 

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Redesigning County for your alt Seaslug doesnt make much difference to its survival.
It might make a difference to the number of SAMs you can cram into the magazine, the size of the handling gear and the power required to drive it.

Seaslug serves from 1962 to 1983 which is not bad for such a first gen system.
The thing I cannot understand is that Britain fielded TWO land-based SAM systems in the same general time period that used SARH, but never adapted Seaslug to it nor produced a successful wholly-indigenous radar-guided air-to-air missile (Red Dean, which probably came closest, was cancelled just before its live firing trials were due to begin).
 

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It might make a difference to the number of SAMs you can cram into the magazine, the size of the handling gear and the power required to drive it.
Indeed
For every 3 large Sea Slug missiles you can fit 4 small Sea Slug missiles assuming horizontal storage.

It might also be of use to note the Sea Dart is not much different from small Sea Slug in absolute dimensions.

It's also easier to fit reasonable numbers on conversions of existing ships. Making the 901 the main bottleneck.

As for SAMs, Sea Slug ought to have entered service by 1956. The MkII by '60 and MkIII by '65.
MkIII seems to be SARH and led to NIGS.
 

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Redesigning County for your alt Seaslug doesnt make much difference to its survival.
It might make a difference to the number of SAMs you can cram into the magazine, the size of the handling gear and the power required to drive it.

Seaslug serves from 1962 to 1983 which is not bad for such a first gen system.
The thing I cannot understand is that Britain fielded TWO land-based SAM systems in the same general time period that used SARH, but never adapted Seaslug to it nor produced a successful wholly-indigenous radar-guided air-to-air missile (Red Dean, which probably came closest, was cancelled just before its live firing trials were due to begin).
So relevant AH thread on Green Flax.
Looked at by RN in '56.

My suspicion is polyrod guidance that ended up on Sea Dart started as SARH guidance solution to giving Sea Slug such a guidance system within the constraints of the missile's design. This system seems to be one for NIGS and NIGS started as an improved Sea Slug.
Since the guidance electronics are near the rear of the Sea Slug missile body, and there's not much room in the nose. Then running cables along the sides from reciever aerials around the nose is the only way to do it.
 
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zen

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One of the things which consistently sticks out is the hiatus and breakup of the team working on SAMs.
It's AH scenarios all of themselves to ponder no such hiatus such as Mind the GAAP, and say pressing on with Sea Slug at Westcott.
A liquid powered Sea Slug might have entered service by the mid 50's or earlier. Despite it's issues, this would make for an earlier learning curve on SAMs.
 
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