75mm Blockhaus Schneider in other applications?

cluttonfred

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The stubby little French canon de 75 mm Blockhaus Schneider was the main gun of the Schneider CA1, France's first tank to see combat, and was used in the Renault FT 75 BS in the aftermath of WWI. The little Renault was arguably world's first self-propelled gun (tracked, armored artillery piece) in the modern sense. It also appears to have been used in pintle mounts in the field and, one would assume from the name, in fortifications.

Two requests...

1) Does anyone have any detailed specs (dimensions, weight, ammunition types, ballistics, performance) for the 75mm Blockhaus Schneider?

2) Were there any other applications for this funny little gun in vehicles or otherwise?

Cheers,

Matthew
 

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It may help your search if you use it French army designation: Canon de 75 court modèle 1916 Schneider
 
From the Schneider CA1 Wikipedia-entry:
To the modern eye, the tank is hardly recognizable as such and appears as an armoured steel box resting on top of a caterpillar tractor. It has no turret, and its inconspicuous main armament is a fortification 75 mm Blockhaus Schneider, placed in a barbette in the right front corner of the tank. The right side had been chosen because the gunner had to stand to the left of the barrel to operate the gun.

The cannon type was developed from a 75 mm trench mortar that had been adapted to fire from a fixed fortification position by adding a recoil compensator and a gun shield; in this configuration it weighed 210 kilogrammes.

This short-barrelled cannon had a length of just 9.5 calibres. It fired the standard French HE Model 1915 75 mm shell but with a reduced propelling charge, shortening the length of the round from 350 to 241 millimetres, allowing for a muzzle velocity of only two hundred metres per second. This limited the maximum range to 2200 metres, the practical range was six hundred metres and the tank needed to close within two hundred metres of a point target to allow for precision shooting.

The gun has a traverse of 60°, a depression of -10° and an elevation of 30°. The ammunition stock is ninety vertically stowed rounds.

[...]

As the traverse of the main gun was limited, it had first to be pointed in the general direction of the target by the driver-commander swivelling the entire vehicle. To facilitate this, a small rectangular frame is fitted on the right side of the nose of the tank. Looking through it, the driver had a sightline parallel to that of the cannon in a neutral position. In practice, the commander had a too limited view of his surroundings through the small hatches to his left, front and right and had to resort to lifting his head out of his rectangular top hatch to observe the enemy.
 
Thanks, Arjen, that's helpful on the specs and interesting about the shortened 75mm ammunition. Anyone have any photos of one of these guns in action, perhaps comparing the short 75mm shells to the regular ones?

dan_inbox, thanks, do you have a solid source confirming that Canon de 75 court modèle 1916 Schneider is, in fact, the correct designation? I don't have any reference materials on French artillery but I do that there were lots of French 75mm guns including multiple different models by Schneider.
 
cluttonfred said:
do you have a solid source confirming that Canon de 75 court modèle 1916 Schneider is, in fact, the correct designation? I don't have any reference materials on French artillery but I do that there were lots of French 75mm guns including multiple different models by Schneider.

"Solid source"? Gosh, no. As usual my sources are only what I find on my hard disk.
I was only trying to be helpful thinking that maybe French isn't your 1st language. I will refrain next time.
 
dan_inbox said:
"Solid source"? Gosh, no. As usual my sources are only what I find on my hard disk. I was only trying to be helpful thinking that maybe French isn't your 1st language. I will refrain next time.

Not at all, sorry if I offended you, I am very grateful for the suggestion and welcome your input, I was just looking for definitive confirmation as there are many guns with similar names. French is not my first language, but it is my second.
 
No offense taken.

Other applications: That 75mm cannon was used in the char d’accompagnement Peugeot 1918 à canon 75mm. This design tried to compete with Renault's FT, which was not found to have enough advantage over the FT to warrant production.

I understand that the Peugeot was proposed in 2 versions, the original char Peugeot 1918 37mm with a Puteaux SA-18 cannon, and the "“char d’accompagnement amélioré à canon de 75 Peugeot" with the BS, but I have never seen a photo of the 37mm version.
 

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Без обид.

Другие применения: эта 75-мм пушка использовалась в аккомпанементе Peugeot 1918 с 75-мм пушкой. Эта конструкция пыталась конкурировать с FT Renault, который не имел достаточных преимуществ перед FT, чтобы гарантировать производство.

Я так понимаю, что Peugeot предлагался в двух вариантах, оригинальный char Peugeot 1918 37 мм с пушкой Puteaux SA-18 и "char d'accompagnement amélioré à canon de 75 Peugeot" с BS, но я ни разу не видел фото 37мм версии.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4UbRfLwm6w
 
Короткая маленькая французская пушка 75-мм Blockhaus Schneider произошла из-за орудия Schneider CA1, первого французского танка, принявшего участие в боевых действиях, и использовалась в Renault FT 75 BS после Второй мировой войны. Маленький Renault был, возможно, первым в мире самоходной артиллерийской установкой (гусеничной, бронированной артиллерийской установкой) в частном присутствии. Похоже, что он также употреблял в качестве шкворня в полевых условиях и, как можно было бы заразиться из-за названия, в ближайших условиях.

Две просьбы...

1) Есть ли у кого-нибудь номинальные характеристики (габариты, вес, виды еды, баллистика, характеристики) 75 мм Blockhaus Schneider?

2) Были ли другие применения этой забавной пушки в коммерческих средствах или иным образом?

Ваше здоровье,

Мэтью
 
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2) Were there any other applications for this funny little gun in vehicles or otherwise?

We know that historically Renault attempted...unsuccessfully...to interest both the French Cavalry arm and the Belgian Army in the ACG-2, a version of the AMC-35 / ACG-1 light "medium" tank. The ACG-2 was re-armed with a short 75mm hull mounted gun, and the two-man 47mm turret was replaced with a one-man machine gun turret.

The "assault gun" form factor of the ACG-2 implied direct combat participation, and its potential buyers/users perceived this to require at least medium-tank armor performance. Part of Renault's marketing difficulty was the inadequate armor of the AMC-35 for the medium tank role and the inadequacy of the drivetrain to handle additional armor weight. But another element of the marketing difficulty was that the prototype was armed with the same high-power 75mm cannon used in the B1 tank family, and all of that gun's limited production capacity was already committed to B1 production orders.

The ACG-2 was marketed for defensive use as a tank killer. To fill that role, the "high power" 75mm gun would have fired the same AP rounds as were already in service for the B1 tank family. The high chamber pressure capability of the thick-barreled 75mm gun was necessary to achieve enough muzzle velocity for this AP round to be effective.

Meanwhile, a significant number of old but still serviceable 75mm Schneiders were sitting in warehouses. They had much less chamber pressure capability than the "high power" 75mm, and would not have provided a useful amount of armor penetration if firing conventional AP ammo.

What apparently didn't happen historically, but seemingly could have, would have been to recognize that HEAT ordnance does not require high velocity, and even benefits from lower velocity since this allows projectiles to have much lighter case construction, thereby allowing more volume to be used for warhead explosive...and France's Brandt company was simultaneously trying to interest the French Army in a 75mm HEAT cannon shell.

A version of the ACG-2 armed with the low-velocity Schneider 75mm gun, and equipped with multi-purpose HEAT/fragmentation shells designed for that gun, might have been better accepted by its potential customers...especially if the gun was provided with enough elevation capability (and perhaps an integrated rangefinder) to engage enemy tanks defensively from standoff range, thereby arguably decreasing the need for better armor protection.

The ACG-2 was being offered at an attractive price. That was possible because its construction required thinner armor plate, and only a moderate-cost drivetrain. If its main gun had been switched to the leftover 75mm Schneider, the price could have been even better.

None of this happened, but perhaps it could have. All of the ingredients existed.
 
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Note BTW that in 1939-40, it was not yet understood...even by the technology leaders, i.e. Mohaupt in France and Thomanek in Germany...that too-fast rotation such as from rifling tended to disrupt a HEAT jet, therefore the results seen with stationary warheads detonated in test-facility jigs would only rarely be duplicated when those same warheads were married to shells fired from rifled guns -- but the short Schneider was a smoothbore gun. If Brandt and Mohaupt had been asked to develop a fin-stabilized HEAT round for that gun, the results would have been as expected, unlike the results that would obtain from other applications of the same warhead when fired from rifled cannon such as the Mle 1897 family. Thus perhaps the physics would have been more fully understood sooner, and militarily more effective HEAT applications would have resulted.
 
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