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Author Topic: Tupolev Tu-160 projects  (Read 29638 times)

Offline Meteorit

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Tupolev Tu-160 projects
« on: January 06, 2006, 06:09:02 am »
Thread to discuss Tupolev Tu-160 based projects.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2006, 01:53:40 pm by Meteorit »

Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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Re: Tupolev Tu-160 projects
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2006, 01:09:25 pm »
Planned Tu-160 Variants

Tu-160PP

There were plans for an escort ECM variant which was also intended to have air-to-air radar and carry long range and medium range AAMs.

Tu-161

An offshoot of Tu-160PP was the Tu-161 interceptor, designed to carry an upgraded MiG-31 Zaslon radar and 12 AAMs (R-33) and intended to intercept transport aircraft over the Atlantic.

Tu-160R

Strategic reconnaissance variant

Tu-170

Conventionally armed only derivative to circumvent SALT-2 limitations.

Tu-160M

Designed to accommodate 2 Meteorit-A supersonic "plasma stealth" missiles, one in each bomb bay, which required stretching of the fuselage. Cancelled with the missile.

Tu-160V
Liquid hydrogen fuelled variant. Enlarged fuselage to accomodate the greater volume of hydrogen fuel.

Tu-160 (Voron carrier)
Voron was a clone of the US D-21 UAV, reverse engineered from a crashed D-21. All the electronics were destroyed by explosive charges as designed, but the airframe and engine were in working order. The Tu-160 and Tu-142 were both studied as carrier aircraft. Voron as a D-21 clone was abandoned, but work continued on a new design under the same name.

Source
  • Piotr Butowski, Tu-160 in Donald David, ed. Tupolev Bombers (AIRTime)
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Offline Meteorit

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Re: Tupolev Tu-160 projects
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2006, 02:01:55 pm »
Interestingly some sources mention two Tu-160 escort variants: the Tu-160PP as a jammer, and the Tu-160P as an escort interceptor with AAMs. Reportedly a mockup of the Tu-160PP was constructed.

One additional variant was the Tu-160K that was to carry two Krechet-R ALBMs.

Sources

Offline Meteorit

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Re: Tupolev Tu-160 projects
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2006, 02:06:34 pm »
Krechet-R

Designer: Yuzhnoye
Lenght: 10.7 m
Diameter: 1.6 m
Launch Weight: 24,400 kg
Warhead: 1,400 kg nuclear/six nuclear MIRVs
Propulsion: Two-stage solid-propellant rocket
Guidance: Inertial
Max Range: 7,500 km
CEP: 600 m

Work on the Krechet scientific research program for an air-based missile system began in July 1983 with V.F. Utkin of Yuzhnoye design bureau as chief designer. The primary aim of the project was to increase the survivability of nuclear counter-strike forces. The Krechet-R ALBM was a two-stage solid-propellant fourth generation missile with a liquid-propellant warhead bus. First stage was controlled by aerodynamic surfaces, and the second stage by a rotating nozzle. The warhead section contained penetration aids. It was proposed to use a Tupolev Tu-160 variant with an increased load capacity of 50 tons designated Tu-160K as the launch platform. Two missiles were to be carried in the bomb bays of the aircraft. Ground support equipment for the missile was designed by KBTM. Draft design of the system was completed in December 1984, but development was not proceeded with.

Source

Offline pometablava

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Re: Tupolev Tu-160 projects
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2006, 05:18:16 pm »
HAAL (High Altitude Aerial Launch)

AW&ST June 12,2000

In May 1999, The US State Dept and Ukrainian Government agreed to remove SALT limitations on commercial use of three Tu-160, as long as certain modifications were made to prevent their use as weapons platforms.
A two-stage, liquid fuel, 70,000-lb booster carried under the belly of the Tu-160 will be designed to put spacecrafts into Low-Earth-Orbit.

Offline SOC

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Re: Tupolev Tu-160 projects
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2006, 07:54:25 pm »
A lot of those Tu-160 variants, including the Voron carrier and the ALBM launcher, were first conceived as variants of the original Tu-160 design.  That'd be the one that looked like a Tu-144D.

Offline Deino

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Re: Tupolev Tu-160 projects
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2008, 06:12:46 am »
He was my North, my South, my East and West,
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Offline frank

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Re: Tupolev Tu-160 projects
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2008, 08:23:47 am »

        Is there any other info on the Tu-160 design that looked like the -144D? I've only seen a small line drawing side view of what was claimed to be it, definitely not just a side view of a -144, BTW, in an issue of Wings or Airpoer in the early '90s & an overhead view of the same -144 derivative in a late '70s AW & ST, but those are the only ones I've seen. Even Butowski's(?) "Red Star" series book on the -144 lists Recon, ECM(?) & interceptor versions, but no bomber, IIRC. I do recall one design that looks like -144D wings, tail & engines & a very abbreviated, squashed fuselage, but that's about it. I scratchbuilt one about 15 years ago basing it on the little line & AW & ST drawings.


A lot of those Tu-160 variants, including the Voron carrier and the ALBM launcher, were first conceived as variants of the original Tu-160 design.  That'd be the one that looked like a Tu-144D.

Offline pometablava

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Re: Tupolev Tu-160 projects
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2008, 11:45:22 am »
Frank,

Soviet Secret Projects: Bombers since 1945 Pages 155 and 156.

Offline SOC

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Re: Tupolev Tu-160 projects
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2008, 11:50:50 am »

        Is there any other info on the Tu-160 design that looked like the -144D?

Check out Yefim Gordon's Red Star series book on the Tu-160, there is a good bit of info in there.  Soviet Secret Projects:  Bombers has some info as well, but not quite as much or in as great detail (such as it is, of course).  This was Tupolev's Tu-160 design, prior to being handed Myasischev's M-18 variable-geometry design for reworking and serial production.  If I remember right, part of the reason that Tupolev's initial Tu-160 design was discarded was because the RusAF felt like it was simply getting a warmed-over airliner.  This was not the case of course, if you look at the design it is markedly different save perhaps in general arrangement from the Tu-144D.

Offline frank

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Re: Tupolev Tu-160 projects
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2008, 11:53:51 am »

     Ah, it might also be Gordon's book on the -144. ISTR having ordered the Tu-160 book before, but it got back-ordered & I never followed it up. Thanks.



        Is there any other info on the Tu-160 design that looked like the -144D?

Check out Yefim Gordon's Red Star series book on the Tu-160, there is a good bit of info in there.  Soviet Secret Projects:  Bombers has some info as well, but not quite as much or in as great detail (such as it is, of course).  This was Tupolev's Tu-160 design, prior to being handed Myasischev's M-18 variable-geometry design for reworking and serial production.  If I remember right, part of the reason that Tupolev's initial Tu-160 design was discarded was because the RusAF felt like it was simply getting a warmed-over airliner.  This was not the case of course, if you look at the design it is markedly different save perhaps in general arrangement from the Tu-144D.

Offline SOC

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Offline frank

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Re: Tupolev Tu-160 projects
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2008, 06:31:27 am »

      Sorry, again, those aren't the ones. This is it.



Frank,

Soviet Secret Projects: Bombers since 1945 Pages 155 and 156.

Offline frank

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Re: Tupolev Tu-160 projects
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2008, 07:48:11 am »

Offline frank

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Re: Tupolev Tu-160 projects
« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2008, 07:56:01 am »

    Also, while fumbling thru my Tu-144 bomber folder, in addition to the o/h shot of it from AW & ST, which I'm not going to post as it's a poor photocopy of a photocopy printed from microfilm about 15+ years ago. :) Anyway, I found a few notes from both FI & AW & ST, all thru the early to even late '80s, there's regular reference to a cruise missile carrier version of the Tu-144, usually associated with the AS(X)-19. ISTR reading somewhere, sometime, that one of the Tu-144 derived bomber/missile carriers had been determined to be the Sukhoi T-4, satellite imagery being what it was back then, I guess.

Offline robunos

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Re: Tupolev Tu-160 projects
« Reply #15 on: March 08, 2008, 03:05:38 pm »
Quote
http://web.archive.org/web/20070404132502/www.abo.fi/~mlindroo/SpaceLVs/Slides/index.htm

is this perhaps the 'real' reason the design was changed from a single to twin engine nacelles, rather than aerodynamic reasons?
a large cruise missile could be carried between them, or a weapons bay placed inside the fuselage here?

cheers,
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Offline frank

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Re: Tupolev Tu-160 projects
« Reply #16 on: March 08, 2008, 03:24:34 pm »

      Considering the re-design was more than just engine nacelle re-location, probably not.


Quote
http://web.archive.org/web/20070404132502/www.abo.fi/~mlindroo/SpaceLVs/Slides/index.htm

is this perhaps the 'real' reason the design was changed from a single to twin engine nacelles, rather than aerodynamic reasons?
a large cruise missile could be carried between them, or a weapons bay placed inside the fuselage here?

cheers,
         Robin.

Offline SOC

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Re: Tupolev Tu-160 projects
« Reply #17 on: March 09, 2008, 09:42:46 pm »

    there's regular reference to a cruise missile carrier version of the Tu-144, usually associated with the AS(X)-19.

The Meteorit was originally intended to arm the Tu-160, so associating it with the "original" Tu-160, the Tu-144D derivative, might have resulted in the confusion.

Offline hesham

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Re: Tupolev Tu-160 projects
« Reply #18 on: January 07, 2009, 04:00:31 am »

Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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Re: Tupolev Tu-160 projects
« Reply #19 on: October 03, 2009, 07:06:30 pm »
Tu-160V, liquid hydrogen fueled version, for Meteorit.
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Offline Meteorit

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Re: Tupolev Tu-160 projects
« Reply #20 on: October 04, 2009, 06:55:42 am »
Thank you. Differs from the base Tu-160 by quite a lot more than I had thought.
Now we only need to see the Tu-160P, K and M variants ;)

Offline Triton

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Re: Tupolev Tu-160 projects
« Reply #21 on: December 24, 2009, 09:38:27 pm »
Models of Tupolev Tu-160 configuration concepts.

Source: Yefim Gordon, "Tu-160", POLYGON-PRESS, Moscow 2003
« Last Edit: August 08, 2010, 06:42:18 am by flateric »

Offline Triton

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Re: Tupolev Tu-160 projects
« Reply #22 on: July 31, 2010, 08:02:34 pm »
Three-view drawing of Tupolev Tu-160 concept.

Model of Tupolev Tu-160.

Source: Yefim Gordon, "Tu-160", POLYGON-PRESS, Moscow 2003
« Last Edit: August 08, 2010, 06:42:48 am by flateric »

Offline Triton

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Re: Tupolev Tu-160 projects
« Reply #23 on: August 07, 2010, 10:31:35 am »
Model of Tupolev Tu-160 concept.

Source: Yefim Gordon, "Tu-160", POLYGON-PRESS, Moscow 2003
« Last Edit: August 08, 2010, 06:43:15 am by flateric »

Offline Triton

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Re: Tupolev Tu-160 projects
« Reply #24 on: August 07, 2010, 10:34:21 am »
Model of Tupolev Tu-160 concept.

Source: Yefim Gordon, "Tu-160", POLYGON-PRESS, Moscow 2003
« Last Edit: August 08, 2010, 06:43:43 am by flateric »

Offline Triton

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Re: Tupolev Tu-160 projects
« Reply #25 on: August 07, 2010, 10:36:58 am »
Model of Tupolev Tu-160 concept.

Source: Yefim Gordon, "Tu-160", POLYGON-PRESS, Moscow 2003
« Last Edit: August 08, 2010, 06:44:19 am by flateric »

Offline flateric

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Re: Tupolev Tu-160 projects
« Reply #26 on: August 02, 2013, 12:59:37 pm »
Tu-160V, liquid hydrogen fueled version, for Meteorit.
Well, it turns out that this is not even Tu-160 mod, but hydrogen Tu-244V SST. To my sorrow, I can't post 3 view, but mystery must be solved and mistake fixed. And yes, it has no VG wings.
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Offline hesham

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Re: Tupolev Tu-160 projects
« Reply #27 on: July 16, 2014, 04:59:54 am »
Hi,


here is the development of the tail unit.

Offline stashandr

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Re: Tupolev Tu-160 projects
« Reply #28 on: February 05, 2017, 06:52:40 am »
Very funny situation: I have this book (Tu-160 - Rigmant, 2016), but I have missed this page about Tu-170!
Thank you for remind!

On the previous page (№343) there is a drawing of aircraft, which lookes like stealth modified Tu-22M - Tu-22M5?..
« Last Edit: February 05, 2017, 06:58:59 am by stashandr »

Offline famvburg

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Re: Tupolev Tu-160 projects
« Reply #29 on: February 05, 2017, 07:53:28 am »
Wow! So what is the bottom pic of? Still labeled as Tu-160 tho?

Offline stashandr

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Re: Tupolev Tu-160 projects
« Reply #30 on: February 05, 2017, 08:13:58 am »
Tu-170 (145 t, middle 90th, Aerofan theme) and probably Tu-22M5.

Offline famvburg

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Re: Tupolev Tu-160 projects
« Reply #31 on: February 05, 2017, 08:19:15 am »
Oh my! I need these books! Are they still available and where? I Googled polygonpress.ru but it is all Cyrillic so I'm still lost. :(

Offline Kryptid

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Re: Tupolev Tu-160 projects
« Reply #32 on: February 05, 2017, 09:40:16 am »
Is the Tu-170 intended to have a reduced radar signature? I see inward canted tails and serrations on the engine nozzles.
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Offline Trident

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Re: Tupolev Tu-160 projects
« Reply #33 on: February 05, 2017, 09:47:22 am »
What a looker :o Bodes well for PAK-DA, although the latter, being subsonic, is going to look very different. Still, LO is clearly something Tupolev have been wrapping their collective minds round for some time!

Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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Re: Tupolev Tu-160 projects
« Reply #34 on: February 05, 2017, 11:45:44 am »
Moved to Tu-160 topic.

Pictures are from Vladimir Rigmant's Tu-160 book by Polygon Press. This is a really awesome book made with close cooperation with Tupolev, marred only (for non-Russian speakers) by being written in Russian. It pays particular attention to the early projects and configuration development of the Tu-160, which makes it especially interesting for this forum, and large numbers of original Tupolev OKB drawings and illustrations are presented.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2017, 12:27:49 pm by PaulMM (Overscan) »
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Offline PlanesPictures

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Re: Tupolev Tu-160 projects
« Reply #35 on: February 05, 2017, 01:29:44 pm »
News for me - Tu-139

Offline PlanesPictures

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Re: Tupolev Tu-160 projects
« Reply #36 on: February 05, 2017, 02:00:41 pm »
It was continuation of Tu-135 (it is so noted on picture). Hypersonic was probably project on atached picture

Offline flateric

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Re: Tupolev Tu-160 projects
« Reply #37 on: February 05, 2017, 03:09:49 pm »
They both were not hypersonic. '139' on the top picture (one of the times this designation was used) is a supersonic launcher platform.for '136' with R-14 based booster stage. Here's a different variant of '139'.
http://www.uhlib.ru/transport_i_aviacija/aviacija_i_kosmonavtika_2009_08/p3.php
« Last Edit: February 05, 2017, 03:20:55 pm by flateric »
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Offline blackkite

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Re: Tupolev Tu-160 projects
« Reply #38 on: February 05, 2017, 04:29:27 pm »
Moved to Tu-160 topic.

Pictures are from Vladimir Rigmant's Tu-160 book by Polygon Press. This is a really awesome book made with close cooperation with Tupolev, marred only (for non-Russian speakers) by being written in Russian. It pays particular attention to the early projects and configuration development of the Tu-160, which makes it especially interesting for this forum, and large numbers of original Tupolev OKB drawings and illustrations are presented.

Hi!
http://www.polygonpress.ru/?portfolio=book-tu-160
http://translate.google.fr/translate?hl=fr&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.polygonpress.ru%2F%3Fportfolio%3Dbook-tu-160&sandbox=1
Someone please show me how to get this book in Japan. ;)
« Last Edit: February 05, 2017, 05:11:06 pm by blackkite »

Offline blackkite

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Re: Tupolev Tu-160 projects
« Reply #39 on: February 05, 2017, 05:07:23 pm »
The book "OKB TUPOLEV" says that "this is a model of the projected Tu-160V delivative fuelled by liquid hydrogen. The LH2 tanks are housed in the upper fuselage, hense the odd shape of the fuselage and the totally new all-movable tail suefaces."
What is the aircraft with large wing tanks? One delivative of Tu-160V?   
« Last Edit: February 05, 2017, 05:10:00 pm by blackkite »

Offline flateric

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Re: Tupolev Tu-160 projects
« Reply #40 on: February 05, 2017, 05:27:54 pm »
This is not a Tu-160 derivative (as stated in old Midland book) but one of second generation HSCT concepts using LH2.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2017, 04:25:35 am by flateric »
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Offline blackkite

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Re: Tupolev Tu-160 projects
« Reply #41 on: February 06, 2017, 01:01:32 am »
Thanks a lot flateric-san. :D

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Re: Tupolev Tu-160 projects
« Reply #42 on: February 06, 2017, 07:35:17 am »
They both were not hypersonic. '139' on the top picture (one of the times this designation was used) is a supersonic launcher platform.for '136' with R-14 based booster stage. Here's a different variant of '139'.
http://www.uhlib.ru/transport_i_aviacija/aviacija_i_kosmonavtika_2009_08/p3.php

Thanks.

Offline martinbayer

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Re: Tupolev Tu-160 projects
« Reply #43 on: February 06, 2017, 09:02:42 am »
In the mid-nineties there was a proposal of a demilitarized commercial version of the Tu-160 called Tu-160SK that was intended as the launch platform for an expendable small launch vehicle named Burlak, see http://www.astronautix.com/b/burlak.html and http://www.testpilot.ru/russia/tupolev/160/sk/160sk.htm. A mocked up version was apparently presented at Asian Aerospace in Singapore in 1994.

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Offline Deino

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Re: Tupolev Tu-160 projects
« Reply #44 on: February 10, 2017, 05:30:42 am »
Moved to Tu-160 topic.

Pictures are from Vladimir Rigmant's Tu-160 book by Polygon Press. This is a really awesome book made with close cooperation with Tupolev, marred only (for non-Russian speakers) by being written in Russian. It pays particular attention to the early projects and configuration development of the Tu-160, which makes it especially interesting for this forum, and large numbers of original Tupolev OKB drawings and illustrations are presented.

Interesting concept, but did anyone notice the similarities of the Tu-170 and that alleged JH-XX/H-18 regional bomber concept ?

He was my North, my South, my East and West,
My working week and my Sunday rest,
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For nothing now can ever come to any good.
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W.H.Auden (1945)

Offline blackkite

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Re: Tupolev Tu-160 projects
« Reply #45 on: February 11, 2017, 04:01:48 am »
Hi! Double delta wing+Twin vertical tail stabilizer⇒VG double delta wing+single vertical tail stabilizer⇒Double delta wing+single vertical tail stabilizer.

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3276654&pagenumber=387&perpage=40#post421371326
« Last Edit: February 11, 2017, 04:24:21 am by blackkite »

Offline blackkite

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Re: Tupolev Tu-160 projects
« Reply #46 on: February 19, 2017, 05:53:57 pm »
Hi! Long road to Tu-160
http://translate.google.fr/translate?hl=fr&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.libma.ru%2Ftransport_i_aviacija%2Faviacija_i_kosmonavtika_2005_03%2Fp4.php&sandbox=1

"In terms of these works in the end of 1952, EDB project team under the leadership of B.M.Kondorskogo (directly in the brigade to the subject have been connected: G.A.Cheremuhin, V.A.Sterlin, A.M.Galkina) engaged in studying problems the design and construction of heavy supersonic aircraft with different types of wings (triangular, diamond-shaped and swept).  Study foreign experience in aircraft with a delta wing (British aircraft "Volcano," "Dzhevelin" American - "Skayrey", the XF-102, etc.] make a preliminary design of this airplane on various aerodynamic schemes -. A normal circuit with swept, diamond-shaped and triangular wing, the scheme "tailless" with trugolnym wing. considering the option of power plants on the basis of a new generation of domestic TRD (aL-7 ( "aND"), HP-5, etc.) as with afterburner, and without them . There have been worked out in detail several options of possible configurations of the aircraft (for example, the team prepared a preliminary draft of the aircraft 5301 scheme "tailless" with a delta wing under six engines AL-7, with a takeoff weight of 70,000 kg and a 300 sq m wing area). by the summer of 1954 , these preliminary work OKB progressed far enough elaborations materials submitted to the MAP, and Tupolev got a particular job intercontinental supersonic aircraft carrier."
« Last Edit: February 19, 2017, 05:58:37 pm by blackkite »

Offline blackkite

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« Last Edit: March 04, 2017, 04:13:42 am by blackkite »

Offline blackkite

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Re: Tupolev Tu-160 projects
« Reply #48 on: March 06, 2017, 03:27:22 am »
Perhaps this model shows Tu-160 early one plan with vertical paired engines. Engine air intakes located below the LERX.

http://oao-tupolev.livejournal.com/50351.html

Bottom model picture is taken from Triton-san's contribution.
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=26.0;attach=90544;image
« Last Edit: March 06, 2017, 03:33:28 am by blackkite »