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Author Topic: Cold war Submarine Aircraft Carriers Projects.  (Read 62799 times)

Offline Michel Van

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Cold war Submarine Aircraft Carriers Projects.
« on: August 31, 2007, 03:07:52 am »
I found this Data on www.combatreform2.com
"Aircraft and Amphibious carriers must submerge to avoid SSC destruction"

1953 RAND corporation make Top secret Study for USAF
"Using the submarine-launched or low-altitude Tu-4 [land-based bomber] surprise attack, the enemy can destroy
a major part of SAC potential at relatively small cost in A-bombs and aircraft.
With no more than 50 aircraft and bombs, two-thirds or more of SAC bomber and reconnaissance aircraft could be destroyed."

Putting a Aircraft in Tincan or Model 640 by Heinemann

Edward H.Heinemann must have read that RAND study.
he began to make Design sketches for Figher aircraft fore submarine USS Halilbut.

USS Halibut had hangar for Regulus II missiles
Heinemann propose a turbojet attack aircraft with a flying boat hull. later called Douglas model 640
to fit in Regulus II Hangar, aircraft's wings, tail fin, or nose section would be fold
launch by JATO rocket, land on see. be pull aboard the submarine by a telescoping crane.

unknown project for Illustation

I think Heinemann Obsession for Small Lightweight Fighter like A-4 Skyhawk Start with Model 640  ;D
more on A-4 Rival
The Navy did not pursue Heinemann's proposals

USS Grayback SSG-574
in magazine "Mechanic's Illustrated" show this speculative Picture of USS Grayback

the Aircraft are Convair SeaDart, Wat would make a some Sense for a Submarine Aircraft Carriers

Flying Carpet

The Navy's aircraft development office the Bureau of Aeronautics the most ambitious one,
called Project Flying Carpet The Boeing study: AN-1 AN-2 Design

See Picture  an1drawing.jpg

AN-1 is a The nuclear-propelled submarine of 500 feet (152,4 meter)long, dispalace 9260 tons and
Carry eight Grumman F11F Tiger Aircraft in tow large Hangars the Tiger are Launch by Rocket booster (ZELL)
The catapult would be elevated to the vertical (90 degrees) to launch aircraft.
The pilot would climb into the aircraft while it was still in the hangar,
then an automated system would move the aircraft onto the catapult.

More on Grumman F11F Tiger here
More on Grumman F11F Tiger here

The aeronautics bureau conducted a feasibility study to investigate the submarine weight, stability, and
equilibrium using an F11F conventional aircraft stowed in the Regulus missile hangar of USS Grayback!
The plan was, eventually, to replace the Mach 1+ F11F fighter with a Mach 3 aircraft.

The aircraft would land aboard the submarine through the use of an innovative hook-and-cable arresting system.
An aircraft that had to set down at sea could be brought back aboard the submarine by crane.

unknown project for Illustation

the study want replace later the Mach 1+ F11F fighter with a Mach 3 Fighter aircraft.

the study calculated that the AN-1 submarine would cost 1.5 as much as a Polaris missile submarine.

see picture aan2drawingcu.gif
AN-2 a aircraft-carrying submarine with similar hull lines to the AN-1, but the AN-2 would operate VTOL tailsiters!

"The Boeing study noted that "flight deck operations in the conventional meaning of the word do not exist." It
estimated a ground crew could launch four VTOL aircraft within 5.5 minutes of surfacing and eight aircraft in just
over nine minutes. If the aircraft engine start used self-contained starters rather than shipboard power, those
times could be cut. The study further concluded that, under even the most adverse sea conditions, the time to
launch all eight aircraft would be 18 minutes. To compensate for the adverse conditions, the ground crew would
move the aircraft, via deck tracks, to the amidship launchers closest to the ship's center of buoyancy."


1963 plans for US Submarine Aircraft Carriers with 20-30 STOL Aircraft AND 27 IRBM !
size of 40 feed (12,192 meter) high 300 feet (91,44 meter) long, 80 feet (24,384) wide and 12000 tons displacement.
feature Retractable Conning Tower, tow Aircraft Catapults. Submarine Power by tow nuclear Reactor.
see Picture ssncvPROCEEDINGS1963.gif

but the Navy's show a ultimate lack of interest in aircraft-carrying subs.

found in Internet
Called Submarine Aircraft Carriers J-10
I have NO Idea is this a Project or only SF-Fan Art ???
see Picture J10


« Last Edit: August 31, 2007, 03:27:05 am by Michel Van »
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Offline rabid stoat

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Re: Cold war Submarine Aircraft Carriers Projects.
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2007, 04:55:02 am »
I think the makers of the anime "Macross Zero" must have stumbled across the same concept. Amongst all the other 21st century nonsense there's a fighter-launching sub an awful lot like one of these. ::)

Thanks for the information. I saw the first picture on another forum but have never seen the others.

Offline Jemiba

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Re: Cold war Submarine Aircraft Carriers Projects.
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2007, 08:05:57 am »
The "unknown project for Illustation" reminds me very much on a HS P.1216
and a sky hook .    ???  Such a combination could make at least some sense,
I think.
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Orionblamblam

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Re: Cold war Submarine Aircraft Carriers Projects.
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2007, 09:07:11 am »

1963 plans for US Submarine Aircraft Carriers with 20-30 STOL Aircraft AND 27 IRBM !
size of 40 feed (12,192 meter) high 300 feet (91,44 meter) long, 80 feet (24,384) wide and 12000 tons displacement.
feature Retractable Conning Tower, tow Aircraft Catapults. Submarine Power by tow nuclear Reactor.
see Picture ssncvPROCEEDINGS1963.gif

Do you have more information on this... such as where the drawing came from?
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Offline RP1

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Re: Cold war Submarine Aircraft Carriers Projects.
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2007, 10:43:54 am »
It's from an issue of USNI Proceedings.  I think I've got the original somewhere.

Quote
The "unknown project for Illustation" reminds me very much on a HS P.1216

It is, IIRC.  That is the cover from "Strike from Beneath the Sea", but it only gets a small caption on the inside cover.

RP1
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Offline Michel Van

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Re: Cold war Submarine Aircraft Carriers Projects.
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2007, 11:21:21 am »
form orginal text http://www.combatreform2.com/submarineaircraftcarriers.htm
"Drawing from the September 1983 Proceedings, "Sink the Navy" by Captain Charles C. Pease, U.S. Navy who in
the 1963 Proceedings published a proposal for a submarine aircraft carrier, complete with catapults and arresting
gears (15). Now that V/STOL technology is beginning to mature, the submersible aircraft carrier may be more
feasible than she was 20 years ago. The first step toward a "sinkable" carrier might be a helicopter hangar
installed in a submersible fleet auxiliary."
 
Clark C. Abt, "The Submarine-Aircraft Carrier," Proceedings, October 1963, pp. 149-153.

Quote
The "unknown project for Illustation" reminds me very much on a HS P.1216
sounds british ...
by the way had Russia plans for Submarine Aircraft Carriers ?
they had study 621 a Cargo Submarine...
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Offline lark

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Re: Cold war Submarine Aircraft Carriers Projects.
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2007, 11:29:54 am »
And on the end paper of :'Submarines with wings' Terry C Treadwell-Conway Maritime.1985
Back paper reads:..The latest idea's from British Aerospace showing the Skyhook recovering
and launching two rather futuristic Sea Harriers from a nuclear submarine..

Offline Orionblamblam

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Re: Cold war Submarine Aircraft Carriers Projects.
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2007, 01:05:59 pm »
It's from an issue of USNI Proceedings.  I think I've got the original somewhere.

If you do, I'd appreciate a copy/scan of the article. At your convenience...
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Offline pometablava

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Re: Cold war Submarine Aircraft Carriers Projects.
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2007, 05:43:54 pm »
Quote
by the way had Russia plans for Submarine Aircraft Carriers ?
they had study 621 a Cargo Submarine...

I haven't found any equivalent to that AN US designs from the Soviet side. An excellent book to find all that designs is "Cold War Submarines"

http://www.amazon.com/Cold-War-Submarines-Construction-1945-2001/dp/1574885308/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-0301693-1808060?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1188607294&sr=1-1

The 621 (Illustrated on page 230) was not a cargo sub but an aircraft capable LST sub (3 La-5)

Offline pometablava

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Re: Cold war Submarine Aircraft Carriers Projects.
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2007, 01:36:09 pm »
New info about Soviet Project 621.

This week I'm at reading with The Kremlin's Nuclear Sword by Steven Zaloga

http://www.amazon.com/Kremlins-Nuclear-Sword-Strategic-1945-2000/dp/1588340074/ref=sr_1_1/104-6982050-1731157?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1192912102&sr=1-1

On page 16-17 we can read that this subs where designed to "capture forward US air bases in remote locations and use it to launch Tu-4 attacks on the continental United States in the event of a war".

Offline uk 75

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Re: Cold war Submarine Aircraft Carriers Projects.
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2008, 07:13:55 am »
If anyone can find the old Eagle Book on Aircraft from the early 60s I am pretty sure they have a submarine aircraft carrier drawn in there, launching jets from its bows, torpedo fashion.

TV 21 the children's comic from 1964 has an excellent submarine carrier vertical launching its jets.

UK 75

Offline Barrington Bond

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Re: Cold war Submarine Aircraft Carriers Projects.
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2008, 03:16:49 pm »
Unfortunately only got a 1955 copy of that Eagle book. Any chance of seeing that TV21 carrier - from Thunderbirds or Stingray strip?!?

Regards,
Barry
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Offline Justo Miranda

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Re: Cold war Submarine Aircraft Carriers Projects.
« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2008, 03:51:00 pm »
If anyone can find the old Eagle Book on Aircraft from the early 60s I am pretty sure they have a submarine aircraft carrier drawn in there, launching jets from its bows, torpedo fashion.

TV 21 the children's comic from 1964 has an excellent submarine carrier vertical launching its jets.

UK 75

Rick Random?

Offline Orionblamblam

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AN-1/AN-2 submarine "aircraft carrier"
« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2008, 07:50:39 am »
Boeing, 1958...

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Offline archipeppe

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Re: AN-1/AN-2 submarine "aircraft carrier"
« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2008, 07:54:50 am »
Somewhat it resembles a Typhoon-class submarine.

Why all these concepts of submarine-carrier has never come to life??
Too much expensive?
No mission?
Too complex by a technical point of view?

And what if in using VTOL?