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Designation Systems / Re: Hawker designation list
« Last post by ursrius on Today at 02:32:59 pm »
Hesham,
Thanks for the summary: I have just a few comments

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- P.1000 from 1940,raised up to P.1163,after that the prefix changed into HS,from HS.1170 up
  to HS.1207
Agreed, though according to BSP2, Project numbers P.1161, 1162 and 1164 to 1169 were not used. When everything finally came under the Hawker Siddeley banner, the Kingston project numbering began with HS. BAe reverted to the P prefix from P.1208 on.

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- P.122 after absorbing Blackburn in 1960,continued to P.161
Although it can be difficult to decide exactly when a Brough project can be considered Blackburn or Hawker Siddeley, I believe they should be considered as Blackburn designs up to P.138. Hawker Siddeley continued the same P series. Again it is difficult to decide when a project is HS or BAe, but I think P.161 would be correct. The P sequence was then continued by BAe up to P.183, after which all Brough projects were integrated into the Kingston project numbering system.

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- SP.63 also after purchased Blackburn in 1960,went on up to SP.90 (maybe)
Interesting - I have no information on the Brough SP series other than the SP.80 Helicrane, otherwise the B.118A. I would really like to see anything on this series (along with source info)

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- HS.131 up to HS.149,after taken over De Havilland in 1960,called Hatfield division
Agreed

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- HS.800 blew up to HS.837,after acquired Avro to became Manchester subsidiary
According to Project Tech Profile 04 - The Air Staff and AEW, Chris Gibson, the HS.836 was a 1978 design, so BAe projects begin with BAe.836 and Hawker Siddeley ends at HS.835, with the exception of HS.860, a variation on HS.806.

Quote
HSA,APD & APG,all were the same,started from HSA.1000 and last known HSA.1023
Personally I have only ever seen these as APD. It would be great if anyone has a list of these.

Great work Hesham, thanks for a good summary.
2
User Artwork / Re: 6th generation fighter concepts
« Last post by pedrospe on Today at 07:58:51 am »
Hi Deino,i just used a design made by Rodrigo Avella as a base to make my drawings and in it´s original design Rodrigo uses chinese missiles and chinese markings and named is concept J-50,if you want to see Rodrigo original designs,just go to is deviantart page.


       best regards

      Pedro
3
Designation Systems / Re: Messerschmitt Designations until 1945
« Last post by newsdeskdan on Today at 04:41:01 am »
Here it was; Willy Messerschmitt-Pionier der Luftfahrt und des Leichtbaues,

it's a first known Project as I expected

"Willy Messerschmitt begann schon bald unter der Bezeichnung Me 108 W (W für Weiterentwicklung) auf seine Art das Flugzeug neu zu konstruieren. Es entstand Blatt auf Blatt mit seinen Skizzen und Gewichtsvorgaben. Hans Hornung legte die aerodynamischen Daten fest, machte die Leistungsberechnungen und gab dem Projekt die Nr. P 1118. (Damit war dieses eines der ersten Messerschmitt-Luftfahrt- Projekte nach dem Krieg, im Anschluß an  die alte Projekt- Nummernliste, die 1945 mit dem Projekt 1112 geendet hatte.) Diese Arbeiten zogen sich ohne Dringlichkeit bis 1955 hin. "

From the very same book......

That's sorted then - case closed.
4
Designation Systems / Re: Messerschmitt Designations until 1945
« Last post by sienar on Today at 04:30:43 am »
Here it was; Willy Messerschmitt-Pionier der Luftfahrt und des Leichtbaues,

it's a first known Project as I expected

"Willy Messerschmitt begann schon bald unter der Bezeichnung Me 108 W (W für Weiterentwicklung) auf seine Art das Flugzeug neu zu konstruieren. Es entstand Blatt auf Blatt mit seinen Skizzen und Gewichtsvorgaben. Hans Hornung legte die aerodynamischen Daten fest, machte die Leistungsberechnungen und gab dem Projekt die Nr. P 1118. (Damit war dieses eines der ersten Messerschmitt-Luftfahrt- Projekte nach dem Krieg, im Anschluß an  die alte Projekt- Nummernliste, die 1945 mit dem Projekt 1112 geendet hatte.) Diese Arbeiten zogen sich ohne Dringlichkeit bis 1955 hin. "

From the very same book......
5
Designation Systems / Re: Messerschmitt Designations until 1945
« Last post by newsdeskdan on Today at 04:16:01 am »
Here it was; Willy Messerschmitt-Pionier der Luftfahrt und des Leichtbaues,

it's a first known Project as I expected

So no primary source then.
6
Designation Systems / Re: Messerschmitt Designations until 1945
« Last post by hesham on Today at 03:54:38 am »
Here it was; Willy Messerschmitt-Pionier der Luftfahrt und des Leichtbaues,

it's a first known Project as I expected
7
Designation Systems / Re: Messerschmitt Designations until 1945
« Last post by sienar on Yesterday at 03:40:00 pm »
because the first Messerschmitt
Project after WWII was P.1118

What is your source for that?
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Designation Systems / Re: Messerschmitt Designations until 1945
« Last post by hesham on Yesterday at 02:11:38 pm »
OK my dear Dan,

but what was about P.1113 & P.1114 ?.
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Designation Systems / Re: Messerschmitt Designations until 1945
« Last post by newsdeskdan on Yesterday at 11:01:59 am »
Hi,

for saying the P.1116 was not existed,I suspect in that,because the first Messerschmitt
Project after WWII was P.1118,that meant there was a series until P.1117 at least.

And you have concrete evidence that Messerschmitt's first postwar design was the P 1118? From a primary source document? Post it up.
I know you are a great advocate of the P 1116 but all contemporary German sources (e.g. interviews with Voigt and Hornung) agree that the P 1112 was the last wartime Messerschmitt type. Their war was over and they wanted jobs with the Americans - what possible (non-ridiculous conspiracy theory) reason could they have for lying about the existence of four super super secret projects, especially when they knew the Americans had captured all their project papers?
Have a look at the attached page. It is the only shred of contemporary evidence (A.I.2(G) Report No. 2383 German Aircraft: New and Projected Types) that supports the existence of a P 1116. Read what it says:
"This project is similar in outline to the P 1101 except that the pilot sits at the tail end of the fuselage behind the fuel tank. Performance was not improved and design resulted in bad visibility for the pilot."
It's describing the P 1106. There is no P 1116 - it's just one mistake in one source, 72 years ago. Maybe it's time to correct it and move on.
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Designation Systems / Re: Mitsubishi designations
« Last post by snark on Yesterday at 09:58:30 am »
Re: Reply #15

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,27630.msg235506.html#msg235506


Original source: The New and Powerful Aircraft of a Phantom, Kojinsha, 1996, ISBN 4-7698-2142-5

“7-shi Twin-engine carrier attack bomber, Mitsubishi, Ka-4” (from “–Shi” table)

As promised       Regards, Harry
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