Miles training aircraft

P

PMN1

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
4 June 2006
Messages
1,193
Reaction score
1,116
I've read the Air Ministry originally turned down the Kestrel powered Kestrel (made 300mph in 1937 following private development) but asked Miles to develop it as the Master when another trainer project failed, what was that trainer project?


Something else I've seen mentioned about the Master is its hand control box - it was apparently a popular feature incorporating controls for throttle, mixture, propeller, landing gear, trailing edge flaps, landing lights and elevator and rudder trim tabs, all easily accessible to the left hand.

I've seen something similar for the Martin Baker fighters.

How did this compare to the fit in the actual front line fighters that got into service?
 
I think, but I can't find a proper confirmation right now, :-[ that the trainer that failed was the de Havilland D.H.83 Don (Spec T.6/36). It ended up as being used as a communications aircraft for a short while.

Regards Bailey.
 
Here's a nice cutaway from the Flight archives that show's the "hand control box" quite clearly":

miles-master-1-cockpit-cutaway.jpg


I am not so sure that the de Havilland Don was the aircraft in question. The Don had a turret and three seats and was also intended as a crew trainer, not just a pilot trainer, IIRC.
 
According to Ray Sturtivant's, Britain's Military Training Aircraft, the de Havilland Don was the trainer in question. Basically the original specification was to complex and the Don failed to meet it. The Air Ministry then went for the Kestrel, developed into the Master as a much better option.

From the same book, a diagram of the Master cockpit.

Cheers Bailey.
 

Attachments

  • Master Cockpit.jpg
    Master Cockpit.jpg
    59.5 KB · Views: 230
From "Back to the drawing board" by Bill Gunston-Airlife
 

Attachments

  • Escanear0001.jpg
    Escanear0001.jpg
    147.8 KB · Views: 190
  • Escanear0002.jpg
    Escanear0002.jpg
    263.7 KB · Views: 215
Hi,

in the T6/36 Spec.,the tenders were De Havilland DH-93,Avro-676,Avro-677
and Miles M-9 Kestrel,and here is some info about Kestrel.
 

Attachments

  • M-9 Kestrel.JPG
    M-9 Kestrel.JPG
    49.9 KB · Views: 199
The layouts for both the Avro 676 and 677 dated May and June 1936 respectively, were also low wing monoplanes to be powered by Rolls Royce kestrel engines. The original specification called for the de Havilland Gypsy XII engine.

"Avro Aircraft since 1908 - A.J.Jackson - Putnams". and "The British Aircraft Specification File - Meekcoms & Morgan -Air Britain".
 
Apparently it had originally been planned that after the Kestrel ceased being available the Miles Master would be fitted with a de-rated Rolls Royce Peregrine- for reasons I currently do not know this was found to be "not practicable".
 
Hi! M.55.

https://books.google.co.jp/books?id=-zKTAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA73&lpg=PA73&dq=Miles+M.58+twin+boom+fighter&source=bl&ots=izgrRJdcrD&sig=ni7Jli6kwyj-Xhzx2tA3bDjOvCQ&hl=ja&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwif68KvoOPWAhVFurwKHRpOC_UQ6AEIQzAG#v=onepage&q=Miles%20M.58%20twin%20boom%20fighter&f=false
 

Attachments

  • M.55_three_side_view_drawing.jpg
    M.55_three_side_view_drawing.jpg
    51.6 KB · Views: 82
  • MARLBOROUGH.jpg
    MARLBOROUGH.jpg
    141.6 KB · Views: 80
JFC Fuller said:
Apparently it had originally been planned that after the Kestrel ceased being available the Miles Master would be fitted with a de-rated Rolls Royce Peregrine- for reasons I currently do not know this was found to be "not practicable".
Click to expand...
"Not practicable" as in Rolls-Royce had decided/been told not to build it, I guess :) Shame really, even a de-rated Peregrine would have led to quite a ride.
 
blackkite said:
https://books.google.co.jp/books?id=-zKTAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA73&lpg=PA73&dq=Miles+M.58+twin+boom+fighter&source=bl&ots=izgrRJdcrD&sig=ni7Jli6kwyj-Xhzx2tA3bDjOvCQ&hl=ja&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwif68KvoOPWAhVFurwKHRpOC_UQ6AEIQzAG#v=onepage&q=Miles%20M.58%20twin%20boom%20fighter&f=false
Click to expand...

You forget those.
 

Attachments

  • 5.png
    5.png
    107.1 KB · Views: 73
  • 4.png
    4.png
    248 KB · Views: 69
  • 3.png
    3.png
    81.3 KB · Views: 72
  • 2.png
    2.png
    87.2 KB · Views: 69
  • 1.png
    1.png
    138 KB · Views: 92
See also the unbuilt Miles M.74 post-war project, essentially the wartime four-seat M.38 Messenger minus the flaps, two seats, one fuel tank, and the center fin/rudder with a smaller engine and shorter landing gear. Details and images here: https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,9737.msg288952.html#msg288952
 
The airplane on top looks like a Miles M-63 jet mailplane concept.
 
hesham said:
So weird,this picture shows the Miles M.36 crew trainer project,as a
composite aircraft for which airplane ?,and what is the book ?!.

Click to expand...
The picture is from the book Miles Aircraft - The Wartime Years: Production, Research and Development During World War II, by Peter Amos, published by Air Britain, 2012.

The caption to the image is:
An undated sketch of a jet propelled high speed Libellula layout, mounted on a twin-engined project based on the M.36 Montrose, was recently discovered in the archives of the late Don Hannah, which probably originated from Don Brown. Note the angle of cut-off for the front wing, a scheme later suggested for the M.52.

So this was probably an early concept to the M.52 project, probably in late 1943 or early 1944. The M.36 was itself a late 1942 project, so would have been relatively new in 1943, although this drawing has several differences from the M.36 Montrose bomber crew trainer.
 
blackkite said:
Hi! M.55.

books.google.co.jp

#Kites, Birds & Stuff - MILES Aircraft.

One of the early pioneering companies of aviation in Great Britain, during the early part of the 20th. century. A comprehensive study of this British aircraft manufacturer
books.google.co.jp
Click to expand...

Regarding the paratrooper variant:

How long was the passenger compartment?
How wide was the passenger compartment?
How tall was the passenger compartment?
How wide was the paratrooper door?

The belly hatch was a hang-over from hastily converted Whitley bombers. ... hang-over as in throbbing head!
 
Hood said:
So this was probably an early concept to the M.52 project, probably in late 1943 or early 1944. The M.36 was itself a late 1942 project, so would have been relatively new in 1943, although this drawing has several differences from the M.36 Montrose bomber crew trainer.
Click to expand...
That was also my hunch.
I haven't got the second volume on Miles from Air-Britain, but the first one is absolutely amazing, so I need to find it!
 
riggerrob said:
Regarding the paratrooper variant:

How long was the passenger compartment?
How wide was the passenger compartment?
How tall was the passenger compartment?
How wide was the paratrooper door?
Click to expand...
Sadly Peter Amos' third volume doesn't provide any internal dimensions, only more detailed weight information.
I suspect that it would be fairly cramped. The bomb cells were used for the equipment cannisters.

Stargazer said:
I haven't got the second volume on Miles from Air-Britain, but the first one is absolutely amazing, so I need to find it!
Click to expand...
It's equally as good, a bit scattered in terms of organisation and perhaps far too much detail in places, but its good. Volume 4 is still a work in progress I believe.
 
Last edited:
Volume 3 ('Miles Aircraft - the Post-War Years') of Peter Amos' magnum opus was published in 2016. I think that it is volume 4 - concerning the Miles brothers activities after the collapse of Miles Aircraft Ltd. - that might be described as a work in progress.
 
avion ancien said:
Volume 3 ('Miles Aircraft - the Post-War Years') of Peter Amos' magnum opus was published in 2016. I think that it is volume 4 - concerning the Miles brothers activities after the collapse of Miles Aircraft Ltd. - that might be described as a work in progress.
Click to expand...
Wow! I had no idea Miles aircraft could fill up three more books after the very thorough first volume... Are they just as thick? Post-war Miles aircraft were somewhat less numerous and it doesn't seem to me like there could be quite as much to write about...
 
I don't have the first book, but 2 and 3 are equally as thick (400+ pages) and 3 comes with a CD of appendices (not sure if the print supplement of appendices is still available).

To complete the story, Air Britain published False Dawn: The Beagle Aircraft Story by Tom Wenham, which completes the Miles Brother's story when BEAGLE was formed by merging their interests with Auster and the mess that ensued.
 

Similar threads

Back
Top Bottom