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Author Topic: Dutch Fokker bomber and fighter projects from the late 30ties  (Read 40609 times)

Offline Silencer1

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Re: What was this Twin-Boom Fokker Project ?
« Reply #120 on: February 17, 2018, 09:51:15 pm »
Image redrawn in Inkscape, then exported as JPG.

Thank you, Arjen for your efforts and sharing of the result! Very clean and attractive.
I wonder, why vertical empennage doesn't presented on the frontal view - on the original drawing?

Offline Arjen

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Re: Dutch Fokker bomber and fighter projects from the late 30ties
« Reply #121 on: February 18, 2018, 12:51:21 am »
I was tempted to add elements that I thought were missing, the vertical fins in the frontal view were missing in the original. In the end, I only added a trim tab to the starboard aileron.

I left out centre lines in what was, in some places, a sometimes vague and crowded drawing. I probably should not have omitted some of the barely visible lines. The three bomb silhouettes in the fuselage (no room there - is that in the engine pod?) I only realised were there when I had a very close look.
<edit> posted a modified image with added hinge and panel(?) lines.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2018, 02:29:46 am by Arjen »

Offline Hood

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Re: Dutch Fokker bomber and fighter projects from the late 30ties
« Reply #122 on: February 18, 2018, 02:36:50 am »
Very nice work, you certainly have cleaned up the plan wonderfully and allowed us to see the detail clearly.
It still seems a very odd design, with just two DB600/601 engines it would have been quite slow but I guess overall bombload was superior to a single-fuselage twin-engine bomber (assuming both fuselages have a bomb bay).

Offline Arjen

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Re: Dutch Fokker bomber and fighter projects from the late 30ties
« Reply #123 on: February 18, 2018, 05:32:28 am »
The space occupied by the original T.9's bomb bay accomodates the Jachtkruiser's main landing gear, I don't think any meaningful bomb load could be located in the remaining space. Some bombs might be carried in the  Jachtkruiser's centre section, but text in the original image ('850L BENZ'  - 850 litres of gasoline) indicates that space would have been used for fuel tanks. That leaves the space between the engines as a possible location for a bomb bay.

Some aspects of this concept may have been less than realistic.

Offline Silencer1

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Re: Dutch Fokker bomber and fighter projects from the late 30ties
« Reply #124 on: February 18, 2018, 07:19:45 am »
The space occupied by the original T.9's bomb bay accomodates the Jachtkruiser's main landing gear, I don't think any meaningful bomb load could be located in the remaining space. Some bombs might be carried in the  Jachtkruiser's centre section, but text in the original image ('850L BENZ'  - 850 litres of gasoline) indicates that space would have been used for fuel tanks. That leaves the space between the engines as a possible location for a bomb bay.

Some aspects of this concept may have been less than realistic.

IMHO, as well as T.V and T.IX this design has been based on the idea of wing fuel tanks. There were plenty space inside wings, and volume in engine nacelle could be used interchangeable: by additional fuel tank (for interceptor) or for bombs (for bomber). How about such concept?
Anyway, the whole design look to me as quite exotic to be effective. At that time Fokker company has been really inspired by twin boomers, so "zwilling" configuration could be another attempt in same direction?


Offline Schneiderman

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Re: Dutch Fokker bomber and fighter projects from the late 30ties
« Reply #125 on: February 18, 2018, 08:05:26 am »
I don't see any reason to doubt the drawing and that shows just two tanks of 850l each in the wing centre section either side of the engine nacelle.

I agree that the bomb load has to be in the central nacelle, and a load of three, what? 250Kg bombs? is low. With a crew of pilot, navigator and six gunners its difficult to envisage what mission it was intended for.  The limited tranverse on the nose and lower guns is odd to, it leaves many undefended areas.

Offline Silencer1

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Re: Dutch Fokker bomber and fighter projects from the late 30ties
« Reply #126 on: February 18, 2018, 08:27:29 am »
Your are right, Schneiderman! Thanks for correction

I'm inattentively seen the top view. Of course, the fuel tanks are located inside the wings.

I don't see any reason to doubt the drawing and that shows just two tanks of 850l each in the wing centre section either side of the engine nacelle.

I agree that the bomb load has to be in the central nacelle, and a load of three, what? 250Kg bombs? is low. With a crew of pilot, navigator and six gunners its difficult to envisage what mission it was intended for.  The limited tranverse on the nose and lower guns is odd to, it leaves many undefended areas.

The whole design of this "air cruiser" seems quite unconventional. Bell "Airacuda" comes to my mind, as an example of concept, that has been interesting, but has been far from the reality. 6 gunners would be suitable for long range bomber, with enough power - but not for such aircraft.
Another example of designers' searches for perfection?
Just imagine this type has been built and put in mass production. Did it has any chances in air combat with Japanese aircraft? I doubt.

Offline Arjen

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Re: Dutch Fokker bomber and fighter projects from the late 30ties
« Reply #127 on: February 18, 2018, 08:49:24 am »
The limited tranverse on the nose and lower guns is odd to, it leaves many undefended areas.
The nose seems to be modeled on the Fokker T.5's nose, which was originally intended as a jachtkruiser too. The nose gun's outline matches the T.5's Solothurn gun. This was a big weapon, its size alone would have restricted movement within the nose's limited space - hence the gun's limited traverse. The Solothurn was intended as a long-range offensive weapon, so limited traverse was less of an issue.
The T.9's belly gun installation, apparently adopted in this concept, likewise had limited gun traverse.
Complete T.5/T.9 images can be found here:
https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,15830.msg153899.html#msg153899
« Last Edit: February 18, 2018, 08:55:17 am by Arjen »

Offline lark

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Re: Dutch Fokker bomber and fighter projects from the late 30ties
« Reply #128 on: February 20, 2018, 05:27:50 am »
The drawing made by Arjen is very close to th one produced
by Frits Gerdessen in Luchtvaart May 1998.

In all the sources I searched, never a 'Ontwerp' number was given for the cruiser aircraft.(design study only)

By the way , It seems that the info on the beeldbank-defensie.nl  must be taken with a pinch of salt.
For exemple , drawing 25 or page 25 shows in fact a Koolhoven 1171 design it seems.
An early contender for the Fokker T.8W

The Fokker C.VIII was a 3 seat recce.aircraft for the LVA.Prototype only.first flight 17.3.1928
Of the Fokker C.VIIIW four intial designs were made ( two in Jan.27 ,one in Feb.27 and one in May 27)
The final version was a 3 seat,parasol wing aircraft for the MLD . First fight 15 Nov.1929.

Offline hesham

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Re: Dutch Fokker bomber and fighter projects from the late 30ties
« Reply #129 on: February 20, 2018, 07:06:25 am »
Thank you my dear Lark,

and as I know,the C.VIIIA-W was given the drawing number 11150.

Offline hesham

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