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Author Topic: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects  (Read 65419 times)

Offline archipeppe

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #15 on: April 15, 2010, 11:30:40 pm »
To Messrs. Pelzig and Skybolt,

If you need any artistic contributions to your book...be sure to give me a ring.

The same by my side.....


Offline Skybolt

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #16 on: April 16, 2010, 01:06:45 am »
Offers aknowledged. BTW, the SS.4 was included in a series of artcles on Stefanutti's projects in Aerofan circa 1985-8. ANd was covered in the Mini-Ali d'Italia book on Stefanutti's light fighters. BTW, the SS.4 suffered from big structural problems.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2010, 01:10:06 am by Skybolt »

Offline AeroFranz

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #17 on: April 16, 2010, 11:43:37 am »
Good stuff in one of the "Dimensione Cielo" - both on the SS.4 and SS.2 - but you probably know that ;)
All modern aircraft have four dimensions: span, length, height and politics.   TSR.2 got the first three right - Sir Sydney Camm

Offline archipeppe

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #18 on: April 16, 2010, 11:44:38 am »
If you're interested I'm working on a three-views of Aerfer Leone.

Offline Sundog

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #19 on: April 16, 2010, 04:20:31 pm »
BTW, the SS.4 suffered from big structural problems.


Wow, that's the first I've heard that. Granted, I've been able to find very little on the project besides what has been posted on this forums. Without being intrusive or asking for the article, can you offer a brief explanation to what the structural problem was? Was the main spar too weak, the skin too thin, or some combination of just bad design? I take it this was the reason for the crash?

Offline AeroFranz

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #20 on: April 16, 2010, 10:31:59 pm »
from "dimensione cielo #2"

The investigation ascertained that the SS.4 lost an aileron due to vibrations. The engine was mounted on the airframe itself (I guess without dampening elements in between), and a contributing factor was an incorrect installation of the aileron itself.
All modern aircraft have four dimensions: span, length, height and politics.   TSR.2 got the first three right - Sir Sydney Camm

Offline Circumspect

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #21 on: April 17, 2010, 09:51:10 pm »
Re: Piaggio P.23R
To: Messrs. "prolific1" and "archipeppe"

Perhaps a stunning test of your respective (perhaps-rival!) capabilities would be fittingly unveiled in any 'real-life' color-graphics of this strange machine (both multi-view and isometric).  I believe the whole thing was 'fire-engine' red! perhaps the largest aeroplane ever to sport this color?  If there was ever (to be) a 'show-stopper' in a (hypothetical) 'all-Italian' airshow, this P.23R would do it.

I told this story to Giorgio Apostolo: suggesting a fast-seller for an Ali d Italia Mini Serie idea.  He kindly mailed me some privately-made (merely B & W) photos of this 'firebird' - but that wasn't my point.  Can you just imagine the scene: if I strolled into some IPMS-convention - with a (scratchbuilt) 1/72 Piaggio P.23R, and set it on a model-table!

Interestingly, both Piaggio aircraft (P.23R & P.108B) were pictured-together (as small crude penciled half-tone rear 3/4 views: 7 o'clock-positions) in: "FLIGHT" (a prominent British periodical), issue: February 22, 1940, p. 180.  Apparently (5-months before the Battle of Britain was to start), the editors expected both aircraft to shortly enter service, concomitantly.

My own feelings about the P.23R?  I think Piaggio miserably failed its potential by inadequate engine-development (but that 'shortcoming' was relatively ubiquitous throughout the entire Italian aero-engine community).  With turbo-superchargers, the P.23R would have been a strategic-reconnaissance aircraft of the highest order (w/a little-more wingspan, a small-forward ventral-gondola for observation & cameras, and NOT fire-engine red, of course!)

Anyway, do either of you (after reckoning this sizable-aircraft in fire-engine red) accept the challenge?
(Methinks a P23R cover-page would sell the whole-book, at one glance.  I'm serious!)

Cheers




Offline archipeppe

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #22 on: April 18, 2010, 01:19:07 am »
I will look forward for some more detailed infos about the P-23R.....  ;)

Offline thunderwarrior

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #23 on: April 18, 2010, 01:22:21 am »
Era ora !!!!!

 ;)

Offline Caravellarella

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #24 on: April 18, 2010, 01:54:51 am »
Does either Author have an Agent? Does the Publisher know the Work is being discussed or promoted this way on this board without the Publisher's participation?

Just a thought......

Terry (Caravellarella)
Because L'ORÉAL keeps telling me I'm worth it......
I can scarcely contain my indifference......
Maybe it's MAYBELLINE......
Vamp till ready......
RIMMEL; get the London Look......

Offline Hikoki1946

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #25 on: May 02, 2010, 01:30:57 pm »
Terry:

Both myself and Skybolt are under contract by Ian Allan Publishing to write the Italian secret project book.

As for the discussion on the book, our editor is very much aware we discuss the book on this forum (as are many of Ian Allan's titles). In part, this is for promotion but also because we value feedback, suggestions, and input by the membership here. And, of course, constructive critique of the final work once released.

Cheers,

Ed


Does either Author have an Agent? Does the Publisher know the Work is being discussed or promoted this way on this board without the Publisher's participation?

Just a thought......

Terry (Caravellarella)

Offline Circumspect

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #26 on: June 04, 2010, 08:00:49 pm »
To All,

Chris Dunning's recently updated "Courage Alone" (as with his more recent "Regia Aeronautica: The Italian Air Forces 1923-1945") will likely remain peerless in telling English readers the complete operational histories of all wartime Italian air forces: at last, within the finality of these two books!  The latter seems a layman's prelude to the former (requiring much greater reading patience!) but a nice short intro to the overall 'participation-mystique' of the era.  However, the author chose not to be a 'technocrat' in either book, perhaps with interim 'consequences' for some aspirants of Mr Dyer's upcoming book.

One searches in vain for a single 'specification-window' (for any aircraft) citing an airspeed, rate-of-climb, time-to-climb, altitude, range, et al.  Ditto any dimensionality, weights, any descriptions of armaments, bomb-loads, etc.  (None, even incidentally within the text!)  Unlike most 'aeroplane' books (especially within the UK-publication traditions, i.e., PUTNAM and most British periodicals), which tabulate 'specs' galore but give only brief 'hatches' of operational highlights: these two special books honor a thoroughgoing logistical, geographical, and mission/results perspective, from beginning to end, but matching its remarkable 'forest-and-tree' minutiae also in its carefully-selected photos/captions and color profiles (mostly side only, but a few top views also).  But, what does all this have to do with: "Italian Secret Projects" in the future?

For a novice: neither book instills sufficient feel of 'contemporary' performance (or armament) that could anticipate the next desired step, as it were: 400mph and a 40,000ft-ceiling were impossible entering WWII, hardly so by mid-war.  To get the full import of something like: "Secret Italian Projects" one ought to be (a priori) familiar with already contemporaneous Italian aircraft states-of-art (with a fair measure of their oppositional aircraft, as well).  In fact, no single in-print tomb (technically describing 'all' Italian aircraft) exists today, and nothing on the horizon, unless PUTNAM will reverse their declination to Rene Francillon, long ago.  The only remedy promising to (sufficiently?) 'prerequisite' the aspirant-reader to Mr Dyer's upcoming project still remains an OOP book published 47 years ago: "Italian Civil and Military Aircraft 1930-45" by Jonathan Thompson and Aero Publishers (neither extant today).   

Therefore, I still recommend this ancient tomb (unsurpassed as the only English-language single volume ever made) as the best preparatory reading for: "Italian Secret Projects" and often available (used) on AMAZON, in 'good' condition.  (Especially, all of yous frequenting this particular subject hangout; no excuses!)

Robert





Offline Hikoki1946

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #27 on: December 04, 2010, 04:52:55 am »
I will agree that Jonathan Thompson's book is well worth the find (which, luckily, I was able to given how long it has been out of print) and should make a nice companion book to ours. Skybolt and I have selected some of the more interesting and diverse Italian aircraft, both military and civilian, to include in our secret project work with current and as much data as can be had. It won't include every project, however (which may be saved for another volume, sales depending) so Thompson's book can fill any gaps in the meantime.

Cheers!



The only remedy promising to (sufficiently?) 'prerequisite' the aspirant-reader to Mr Dyer's upcoming project still remains an OOP book published 47 years ago: "Italian Civil and Military Aircraft 1930-45" by Jonathan Thompson and Aero Publishers (neither extant today).   

Therefore, I still recommend this ancient tomb (unsurpassed as the only English-language single volume ever made) as the best preparatory reading for: "Italian Secret Projects" and often available (used) on AMAZON, in 'good' condition.  (Especially, all of yous frequenting this particular subject hangout; no excuses!)

Robert






Offline Hikoki1946

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #28 on: December 04, 2010, 04:55:53 am »
The SS.3 and SS.4 are included in the book.  ;D

Cheers,

Ed



All in all, quite an informative and revelatory video short-subject by AERO CINEMA, with color-graphics to boot.  However, its complete omission of any passing mention of Ambrosini's S.S.4 seems unforgivable.  This Italian canard sported state-of-art high-performance just as commensurate to its time (1939: including full tactical-weapons potential), as any of the other canards this video covered.  AERO CINEMA's omission might seem typical of its staff's (and their audience's) not-yet outgrown notions of German shock 'n' awe.  

Online Maveric

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Re: Forthcoming: Italian Secret Projects
« Reply #29 on: December 04, 2010, 01:49:05 pm »
We wait for this book... :o :-*
I see you on the dark side of the moon.