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Author Topic: Manshu Ki-65 heavy fighter  (Read 15044 times)

Offline gerhard

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Manshu Ki-65 heavy fighter
« on: July 27, 2009, 04:43:38 am »
Hi guys

What was the relationship between the Ki-65 and the Mitsubishi J2M Raiden (雷電, "Thunderbolt")? Was the IJA also interested in use this magnificent plane?

Thanx
Gerhard

Offline Boogey

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Re: Mansyu Ki-65 question
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2009, 02:43:06 pm »
Yes, yes, yes ! Tell me more about Mansyu Ki-65.
Now I only know, that it was an one - engined fighter.
Christianity will go. It will vanish and shrink.
I needn't argue with that ; I'm right and I will be proved right.
I don't know which will go first, Rock'n'Roll or christianity ?

John Lennon

Offline Apophenia

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Re: Mansyu Ki-65 question
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2009, 02:54:18 pm »
Yes, do tell. A Mitsubishi connection would be most interesting! Because Manshyu built Nakajima fighters, I'd always wondered if the Ki-65 might have been a Ki-62 derivative.

Offline Tophe

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Re: Mansyu Ki-65 question
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2009, 08:58:48 pm »
In the Docavia (French) book 'les chasseurs japonais", page 231 (my translation here, imperfect sorry):
"the Nakajima company designed a plane with an in-line engine, competitor of the Ki.61 Hien (...). From the same program of 1940, the company Mansyu, from Harbin (Mandchoury) competed with the interesting project Ki.65. Single-seater single-engine to replace the Ki.44 Shoki as interceptor, speedy and well armed. At first, it used a 18-cylinder double-star engine Mitsubishi Ha.211 of 2,200hp and an armament of two 20mm guns and two 12.7mm machine guns. The Koku Hombu made suggestions, and were created variants like the Ki.65a with a 1,850hp 14-cylinder engine Mitsubishi Ha.111, and the Ki.65b with a Ha.211-I, and the Ki.65c with a Ha.211-V. None of these models left the drawing board."
(no picture of them in this book)

Offline Apophenia

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Re: Mansyu Ki-65 question
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2009, 10:28:12 pm »
Good find Tophe!

So, the Ki.62 and Ki.65 were competitors -- with the Ki.61 and each other.

Offline gerhard

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Re: Mansyu Ki-65 question
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2009, 10:59:26 pm »
Thanx

I cannot read Japanese but I gathered more or less the same from this paragraph. Thanks for your translation Tophe. My source is IJA Experimental Aircraft 1943-1945 by Ikaros and available through HLJ. Can someone perhaps assist with this text?

Cheers
Gerhard



Offline gerhard

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Re: Mansyu Ki-65 question
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2009, 10:32:55 pm »
Guys

Here is some more info.

Gerhard

Offline blackkite

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Re: Mansyu Ki-65 question
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2009, 07:22:24 am »
Mitsubishi Ki-65 experimental fighter

At first, IJA planned Ki-65 as Ha-102 powered attack aircraft, and hoped first prototype completed in March 1942.
But Mitsubishi's engineers were too busy by other projects, Mitsubishi planned alternative Ki-65 concept which was Raiden small modified heavy fighter.
But Raiden's development work was not so smooth, IJA did not gave Mitsubishi an order for prototype production.
Finally IJA gave Manshu an order for Ha-211 powered Ki-65.
If Mitsubishi KI-65 heavy fighter was realized, it was the first case of IJA and IJN interceptor unification.

Offline T-50

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Re: Mansyu Ki-65 question
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2009, 11:59:37 am »
 Are there pictures of this design?

Offline blackkite

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Re: Mansyu Ki-65 question
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2009, 03:47:38 pm »

Offline Tophe

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Re: Mansyu Ki-65 question
« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2009, 07:59:12 pm »
http://www.warbirds.jp/kakuki/sakka/saksuda.htm
Of course it's fake. Enjoy.
Thanks a lot for this link, wonderful. ;D while... I have not seen "65" there, which would it be? I hope the uncommon design below:

Offline blackkite

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Re: Mansyu Ki-65 question
« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2009, 07:28:26 am »
The second plane's explanation is as follows. ;)

Ki-65 Mitsubishi experimental twin engine single seat high speed light bomber.
(キ:Ki ,三菱:Mitsubishi ,試作:experimental ,双発:twin engine,単座:single seat,高速:high speed,
軽:light,爆撃機:bomber)

Offline gerhard

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Re: Mansyu Ki-65 question
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2009, 08:09:00 am »
I don’t think that the picture from the “Warbird” site is reliable or even viable. The IJA was way too conservative for such a strange design. I doubt that this plane is streamline or manoeuvrable enough for a heavy fighter.

Thanks for the breakdown, Blackkite. It makes more sense that way.

Cheers
Gerhard

Offline blackkite

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Manshu Ki-65 heavy fighter
« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2014, 05:04:50 pm »
Development of Kawasaki Ki-60 heavy fighter, Nakajima Ki-63 heavy fighter and Kawasaki Ki-64 heavy fighter planned by the line of investigation in 1940 did not go smoothly.
In spring of 1941, the aviation technology research institute of Imperial Japanese Army fixed its eyes on the high performance of the 14-shi interceptor (Raiden) which the Imperial Japanese navy was making as an experiment.
And the aviation technology research institute of Imperial Japanese Army started examination which adopts this fighter as the fighter even in Imperial Japanese Army on the assumption that the minimum modification was given.
The IJA decided to confer the name of Ki-65 upon this fighter.
Development of attack airplane Ki-65 which equipped Ha 102 engine, planned to order to Mitsubishi was stopped.

However, development of Raiden interceptor was not favorable, either.
The Imperial Japanese army aviation technology research institute started uniquely examination of the heavy fighter equipped with Ha 211 more powerful engine.
Manshu Aircraft was selected as the  Production manufacturer of this heavy fighter. 
Ki-65 heavy fighter changed the shape again.

This Ki-65 heavy fighter aimd at the maximal speed of 680 km/h, and manufacture of three trial production airplanes and nine additional trial production airplanes was planned in 1942.
Mass-produced type completion of No. 1 is scheduled for July, 1943, and an army examination was due to be completed in May, 1944.
Research of Ki-65 heavy fighter was replaced with Ki-98 more novel fighter although continued till the middle of 1942.

Source: The IJA aircrafts, Gakken, ISBN978-4-05-606220-5 (Super book!!)

http://www.amazon.co.jp/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?__mk_ja_JP=%E3%82%AB%E3%82%BF%E3%82%AB%E3%83%8A&url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=+ISBN978-4-05-606220-5+

Hi ED! Can you find a 3-side view drawing of this design?

« Last Edit: September 12, 2014, 06:10:08 pm by blackkite »

Offline windswords

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Re: Manshu Ki-65 heavy fighter
« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2014, 07:07:18 pm »
I found this web site in Italian that mentions the Ki-65. You can run it through Google Translate. They don't know what it looks like either.


http://www.aereimilitari.org/forum/topic/12590-manshu-ki-65/


Frank