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Author Topic: Avro CF-105 Arrow and its variants  (Read 36902 times)

Offline Sentinel Chicken

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Avro CF-105 Arrow and its variants
« on: September 05, 2006, 11:01:34 am »
In AJ Jackson's book Avro Aircraft since 1908 reference is made to a predecessor design to the CF-105 Arrow that would have used two stacked turbojet engines (like the EE Lightning), a swept delta wing and conventional tailplane. This is the first I've heard of such a proposal and am wondering if anyone has a picture of what this aircraft was supposed to look like?

Overkiller

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Re: Avro CF-105 Arrow and its variants
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2006, 01:03:09 pm »
I have a three view in my arrow book by the arrowheads, two versions, one with nose intake, the other with NACA style flush lateral intakes. I do not have a scanner at home, will take book to work tomorrow and try to get it scanned for you. :)

Offline Antonio

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Re: Avro CF-105 Arrow and its variants
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2006, 02:41:41 pm »
As Overkiller says, nice CF-104 drawings can be found in "Arrow" by The Arrowheads. ISBN 1-55046-047-1 so we will wait for it ;)

If you love the Arrow and its development you need this book but also Avro Aircraft & Cold War Aviation by Randall Whitcomb. ISBN 1-55125-082-9.
An excellent article (as usual I'm a fan of its work ::)) comes from Tony Buttler in Air Enthusiast (back issues can be purchased and delivered to your home everywhere in the World at http://www.airenthusiast.com). The reference is "Arrow Secrets. Items from the History of Canada's most famous fighter". Air Enthusiast Setember/October 2000 No89. Pg 34 to 43.

This CF-104 profile comes from Mr. Whitcomb book

Cheers,
Antonio

Offline Archibald

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Re: Avro CF-105 Arrow and its variants
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2006, 12:56:36 am »
Here's an interesting documents I found some years ago (during my Arrow madness period which lasted two-years  ??? :P :o)
It's the path from the CF-100 to the CF-105
Conservatoire de l'Air et de l'Espace d'Aquitaine
http://www.caea.info/en/plan.php

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Offline TinWing

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Re: Avro CF-105 Arrow and its variants
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2006, 09:27:33 am »
Here's an interesting documents I found some years ago (during my Arrow madness period which lasted two-years  ??? :P :o)
It's the path from the CF-100 to the CF-105


If Avro Canada had settled on the single engine 1-TR9 configuration of June 1952, Canada might have produced an aircraft as commercially successful as the F-104...or perhaps it would have been another F-102.

Offline Antonio

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Re: Avro CF-105 Arrow and its variants
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2006, 10:31:54 am »
Archibald, this drawings are from "Arrow" by The Arrowheads. ISBN 1-55046-047-1

Overkiller

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Re: Avro CF-105 Arrow and its variants
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2006, 12:35:51 pm »
Archibald, this drawings are from "Arrow" by The Arrowheads. ISBN 1-55046-047-1

That was exactly the image I was going to post! Got it scanned at work today, if anyone is interested I also have it as a PDF file.

Offline Archibald

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Re: Avro CF-105 Arrow and its variants
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2006, 04:19:03 am »
Thanks Tin Wing. Sorry for not having mentionned the source...
I plan to do a Mirage G by merging a Mig-23 forward fuselage with a Mirage 2000D cockpit.
 Now, what the link with the CF-104?  ??? well, I realised that the remains of the Mirage and the MiG (delta wing+ square air intakes) would allowed the building of a CF-104 :) ... just have to found canadian decals.

Quote- If Avro Canada had settled on the single engine 1-TR9 configuration of June 1952, Canada might have produced an aircraft as commercially successful as the F-104...or perhaps it would have been another F-102. - Quote

You mean the Mirage III?  ;D
Always thought the same thing concerning the Fairey Delta II...
Conservatoire de l'Air et de l'Espace d'Aquitaine
http://www.caea.info/en/plan.php

Profanity: weaker mind trying to speak forcefully

Political correctness: just bury your head in the sand for the sake of appeasement and "peace for our time"
- https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serge_Dassault#Affaires_

Offline consealed

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Re: Avro CF-105 Arrow and its variants
« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2006, 11:14:29 pm »
I also want to see a real CF-103 pic.
The key to any great story not is who or what, when or where, but why

Offline elmayerle

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Re: Avro CF-105 Arrow and its variants
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2006, 03:13:53 pm »
Here's a comparison illustration Randall Whitcomb did of the CF-104 and other single-engined delta-winged fighters.  It illustrates that the CF-104 was quite comparable.

Offline Kim Margosein

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Re: Avro CF-105 Arrow and its variants
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2007, 11:05:56 am »
That Whitcomb design for the CF-104 strongly resembles the early pre-area rule F-102.  How early in the design process was this iteration of the CF-104?

Offline Archibald

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Re: Avro CF-105 Arrow and its variants
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2007, 12:46:28 pm »
Design of the Arrow was frozen circa June 1955. Swept wing CF-100s were abnadoned after Zurakowski broke the sound barrier in December 1952. Seems the CF-104 design dates back from 1953 - 54. Not too far from the early F-102s you mention (October 1953).
Conservatoire de l'Air et de l'Espace d'Aquitaine
http://www.caea.info/en/plan.php

Profanity: weaker mind trying to speak forcefully

Political correctness: just bury your head in the sand for the sake of appeasement and "peace for our time"
- https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serge_Dassault#Affaires_

Offline Weaver

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Re: Avro CF-105 Arrow and its variants
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2008, 08:35:00 pm »
Okay, hoping that someone with more knowledge than me can resolve a minor conundrum.

How many Sparrows could the CF-105 Arrow actually carry?

I've got three answers so far:

1. Eight. This is clearly nonsense, probably stemming from a misunderstanding of imprecise statements like "eight Falcons, later replaced by Sparrows", but it gets repeated in book after book......

2. Four. This seems logical: one Sparrow in place of each tandem pair of Falcons. Furthermore, a picture exists* of an Arrow wind-tunnel model, which clearly shows four Sparrows extended from the bay, two on short arms and two on long ones.

3. Three. Diagrams exist* showing both Falcon and Sparrow fits, with one missile extended. On the Falcon one, the legend next to the extended missile says "8 Falcon Guided Missiles". On the Sparrow one, the same legend says "3 Sparrow 2 guided missiles", and deciphering the diagram as best I can, I count three hydraulic jacks and three cradles....


*The photos and the cutaways are in the Boston Mills book "Arrow" by "The Arrowheads": R.Organ, R.Page, D.Watson and L.Wilkinson. Published 1980, ISBN 1-55046-0471. The 4 x Sparrow photo is on page 16. The diagrams are on Page 132.

Offline Apophenia

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Re: Avro CF-105 Arrow and its variants
« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2008, 01:13:35 am »
You may have seen these already but the answer seems to be first three (+ eight Falcons), then increased to four.

Proposed Installation of Four Internally Stowed "Sparrow 2" Missiles in the CF-105 Aircraft. February, 1955. AVRO Aircraft Ltd. Malton, Ontario.

Proposed Missile Installations for CF-105 Aircraft A.V. Roe Canada Ltd. Aircraft Division. October 1954.

http://www.avroland.ca/al-cf105-interceptor-rex.html

"Initially, it was planned that the Arrow would carry eight Falcons and three Sparrows in its immense missile bay. Later the number of Sparrow missiles was increased to four. After the cancellation of Sparrow II, the armament was changed to four Falcon missiles, and one or two unguided Genie missiles."


avatar

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Re: Avro CF-105 Arrow and its variants
« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2008, 01:53:38 am »
The Arrow would carry four Sparrow IIs as well as the eight Falcons.

http://www.vectorsite.net/avarrow.html