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Author Topic: Several Arsenal ship concepts  (Read 55412 times)

Offline Matt R.

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Re: Several Arsenal ship concepts
« Reply #105 on: February 13, 2015, 11:37:40 am »
Whose design is the one below ?

According to Bill Liebold, this is a Lockheed Martin design (Baseline 2B), with the shipyard being Litton.

Here is a short narrative :

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The second ship shows another concept. I don't know who made it, where it came from, or what scale it is but it's 61" long. It showed up in my shop at Lockheed Martin in 1997 or 1998 when I was hot and heavy building newer versions for trade shows and this one was being taken out of circulation. As you can see on the name plate it is Baseline 1A, you can also see the paint cracking. The other photo is the last model I built of the ship Lockheed Martin worked on just before the Arsenal Ship program was canceled. I can't remember who the ship yard was that we were teamed with but I think maybe Litton back when they still owned Ingals Ship Yard. That one was Baseline 2B and was built to 3/32"=1'. Just forward of the front VLS are four little light grey squares with holes on the dark grey deck. Those are the guns. You only see the gun muzzles at the deck level. They were to vertically fire guided rounds. I did build the Baseline 2A ship. It looked a lot like 2B but was narrower. The vertical launchers on 2A and 2B were a new design and the hatches were flush to the deck and you could not see the hinges. There you go, my entire memory of Arsenal Ship in a paragraph.

Higher resolution pics can be found here
 
Credit : Bill Liebold / Model Ship Gallery
« Last Edit: February 13, 2015, 11:42:16 am by Matt R. »

Offline Matt R.

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Re: Several Arsenal ship concepts
« Reply #106 on: February 13, 2015, 11:49:17 am »
Lockheed Martin Marine Systems Arsenal Ship Concept via JimK

According to Bill Liebold, this is the Lockheed Martin Baseline 1A variant (short narrative in the previous post).
 
More pics below (credit : Bill Liebold / Model Ship Gallery)

Offline Triton

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Re: Several Arsenal ship concepts
« Reply #107 on: February 13, 2015, 12:25:34 pm »
Box artwork for a notional U.S.S. Arizona (BB-72) model kit based on the Lockheed Martin Baseline 1A variant manufactured by Blue Ridge Models.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2015, 02:56:14 pm by Triton »

Offline Matt R.

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Re: Several Arsenal ship concepts
« Reply #108 on: February 13, 2015, 12:47:02 pm »
Box artwork for a notional U.S.S. Arizona (BB-72) model kit based on the Lockheed Martin Baseline 1A variant manufactured by Blue Ridge Models.

More pics of the model kit by Blue Ridge can be found here

Offline flateric

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Re: Several Arsenal ship concepts
« Reply #109 on: February 13, 2015, 09:00:35 pm »
Matt, many thanks
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stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works

Offline XP67_Moonbat

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In God we trust, all others we monitor. :-p

Offline bobbymike

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Offline XP67_Moonbat

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Re: Several Arsenal ship concepts
« Reply #112 on: May 14, 2015, 10:59:54 am »
Well no s**t?!! A day late and a dollar short, huh? Aint that a bitch. ;D
In God we trust, all others we monitor. :-p

Offline bobbymike

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Re: Several Arsenal ship concepts
« Reply #113 on: May 14, 2015, 11:07:44 am »
Well no s**t?!! A day late and a dollar short, huh? Aint that a bitch. ;D

Story of my life thanks for taking this one  ;D
Books are the quietest and most constant of friends; they are the most accessible and wisest of counselors, and the most patient of teachers.

Charles W. Eliot

Offline GWrecks

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Re: Several Arsenal ship concepts
« Reply #114 on: December 17, 2018, 01:54:16 am »
http://militaryboatsonline.com/2015/09/creative-models-northrop-grumman-team-12-resin-model-arsenal-ship-boat/

Found this trying to Google the Northrop Grumman arsenal ship...unfortunately the model has already been sold.

Anyone got better pictures of it? If I were to guess it went through a similar change to the Lockheed Martin arsenal ship.
↑↑↓↓LRLRBA

Offline bobbymike

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Re: Several Arsenal ship concepts
« Reply #115 on: January 16, 2019, 06:38:46 am »
https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2019/01/us-shift-to-missile-container-navy-would-be-six-times-more-cost-effective.html?fbclid=IwAR2dFUg9z_MbmPNFcqPDh-BvYC6Yut_Ylu2Jt5pVlgXdK7xmI9eBtnzUs3s

Quote
The US Navy is considering converting available merchant ships into missile-armed Navy ships. They would be able to make 15-20 merchant ships for the cost of one destroyer. The merchant missile ships would have 450-600 missiles versus 90 on one destroyer.

Offensive and defensive missiles are one of the main metrics for how much combat capability there is in a fleet.

The line item cost for Mk41 VLS is around $51-54 million per ship set (twelve modules). For hardware alone, the cost drops to $33-36 million per ship set. This means the cost of the missiles is about 2-4% of the cost of a $1.5 billion US destroyer.
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Offline sferrin

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Re: Several Arsenal ship concepts
« Reply #116 on: January 16, 2019, 07:46:50 am »
They would suffer from the same problems the original arsenal ship concepts did.  All those eggs in baskets that can't defend themselves. 
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Offline TomS

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Re: Several Arsenal ship concepts
« Reply #117 on: January 16, 2019, 08:21:59 am »
They would suffer from the same problems the original arsenal ship concepts did.  All those eggs in baskets that can't defend themselves.

And it misses the cost of the actual armament.  The Next Big Future article says "the cost of the missiles is about 2-4% of the cost of a $1.5 billion US destroyer" but that's actually the cost of the missile launchers, not the missiles themselves.  Taking an average cost of $2.5 million per missile (SM-6 more, Tomahawk less), the actual cost of the missiles on a DDG is pushing $240 million.  Very rough estimate, since it's going to vary a lot based on the mix, but it's far more relevant than the cost of the launchers alone.

Simple fact is that barring a major change in the cost of missiles, inventory is going to be a far more serious limitation on the number of missiles afloat than the number of deployed VLS cells.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2019, 08:36:38 am by TomS »

Offline bobbymike

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Re: Several Arsenal ship concepts
« Reply #118 on: January 16, 2019, 09:51:03 pm »
Ships can't be two places at once. I always thought this configuration could work in a zero anti-ship threat environment. Park one off the Horn of Africa and target a big part of that and the Middle East.

Then keep the high end ships for the high end fight.
Books are the quietest and most constant of friends; they are the most accessible and wisest of counselors, and the most patient of teachers.

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Offline sferrin

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Re: Several Arsenal ship concepts
« Reply #119 on: January 17, 2019, 04:48:29 am »
Ships can't be two places at once. I always thought this configuration could work in a zero anti-ship threat environment. Park one off the Horn of Africa and target a big part of that and the Middle East.

Then keep the high end ships for the high end fight.

Anything more than TLAM barges and they'll need a cruiser there with them anyway for target detection / SM-2/3/6 control.
"DARPA Hard"  It ain't what it use to be.