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Author Topic: BAe P.1216: Supersonic ASTOVL fighter  (Read 108480 times)

Offline Archibald

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Re: BAe P.1216: Supersonic ASTOVL fighter
« Reply #225 on: November 05, 2017, 10:29:37 am »
Thank you very much.
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Offline steelpillow

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Re: BAe P.1216: Supersonic ASTOVL fighter
« Reply #226 on: July 11, 2018, 10:39:43 am »
Would like to buy a copy. Are they still available from http://www.harrier.org.uk/P1216.htm ?
Cheers.

Offline Harrier

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Re: BAe P.1216: Supersonic ASTOVL fighter
« Reply #227 on: July 11, 2018, 11:15:00 am »
Yes.
BAe P.1216 Supersonic ASTOVL Aircraft: www.harrier.org.uk/P1216.htm

100 Years  - Camel, Hurricane, Harrier: www.kingstonaviation.org

Offline steelpillow

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Re: BAe P.1216: Supersonic ASTOVL fighter
« Reply #228 on: July 11, 2018, 11:42:59 am »
Payment sent via paypal  :)
Cheers.

Offline Harrier

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Re: BAe P.1216: Supersonic ASTOVL fighter
« Reply #229 on: July 11, 2018, 11:54:26 pm »
Thanks. Will send 1st class tomorrow as on work trip today.
BAe P.1216 Supersonic ASTOVL Aircraft: www.harrier.org.uk/P1216.htm

100 Years  - Camel, Hurricane, Harrier: www.kingstonaviation.org

Offline steelpillow

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Re: BAe P.1216: Supersonic ASTOVL fighter
« Reply #230 on: July 14, 2018, 02:11:53 pm »
Arrived this morning. Been hiding with it in a corner during the heat of the day. :)
Wonderful profile of a wonderful machine we really should have gone ahead with, though I need to look out for the discussions on plenum chamber burning.

The P.1219 at the end caught my eye, as I am currently researching the history of the outboard tail, in which the tail picks up where the wing ends. The P.1219 is basically a P.1216 with the wing stopping short at the tailbooms. It carries strong echoes of the Vought ADAM II studies from twenty years before. Do you happen to have any more information about it?
« Last Edit: July 14, 2018, 02:14:00 pm by steelpillow »
Cheers.

Offline Harrier

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Re: BAe P.1216: Supersonic ASTOVL fighter
« Reply #231 on: July 15, 2018, 09:22:53 am »
Glad you like it.  :D

The P1219 was a brief study to see if a lighter airframe could be created. However, the low aspect ratio would reduce turn rate and STO lift, so it was quickly discarded. That one picture and one page of comments was all that was done.

The ADAM had a 'jet flap', which gives very different lift characteristics (and failure modes).
BAe P.1216 Supersonic ASTOVL Aircraft: www.harrier.org.uk/P1216.htm

100 Years  - Camel, Hurricane, Harrier: www.kingstonaviation.org

Offline steelpillow

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Re: BAe P.1216: Supersonic ASTOVL fighter
« Reply #232 on: July 15, 2018, 10:09:27 am »
A whole page of comments? Did it say anything else?

I don't think the BAe people can have been fully aware of the outboard tail's characteristics in the way that Vought were. It can easily be positioned in the wing upwash where it will provide a useful reduction in vortex-induced drag, and BAe have indeed moved it forward to a more effective position for that. But I am not sure if they knew what they were doing, or were simply lightening the plane by shortening the booms. Its interaction with the downwash would also have produced useful lift and would have compensated for the loss of the first 15% of the wing area. That leaves around 10% still to recover, which could easily be done by increasing the wing span a little, pushing the booms apart so that the span of the tail now matched the original wing span. Both these effects would also help to restore STOL lift, and good low-speed performance is a characteristic benefit of the outboard tail. That BAe did not realise this suggests that they were not paying attention to the Vought studies, or to the earlier Blohm & Voss studies that Vought did know about. But yes, sustained turn rate would suffer, due to the loss of forward lifting area and reduced tail moment arm. Which should not matter, unless you have by now developed a National allergy to thrust-vectoring during a dogfight. :(
Cheers.

Offline Harrier

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Re: BAe P.1216: Supersonic ASTOVL fighter
« Reply #233 on: July 15, 2018, 10:18:44 am »
BAe knew about the Vought work. They were concerned with using the booms to twist the inner wing, with the ailerons used to do this by affecting the flow over the tail.

They were addressing different problems from Vought - a PCB engine means thrust is never lacking, but in certain flight regimes key control aspects dominated, and a desire to not bleed power from the core for the reaction controls.

I can say more when I dig out that page. Work hectic at the moment.
BAe P.1216 Supersonic ASTOVL Aircraft: www.harrier.org.uk/P1216.htm

100 Years  - Camel, Hurricane, Harrier: www.kingstonaviation.org

Offline steelpillow

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Re: BAe P.1216: Supersonic ASTOVL fighter
« Reply #234 on: July 15, 2018, 12:05:36 pm »
Now you have me on the edge of my seat.  ;)
Cheers.

Offline steelpillow

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Re: BAe P.1216: Supersonic ASTOVL fighter
« Reply #235 on: July 24, 2018, 05:48:49 am »
While I am waiting (grin), I have scaled the 3-view of the P.1216-41 on the back endpaper to 1:72. It's big for a Harrier derivative, compare it to the original P.1127 I have put alongside it in this photo:

By the way, if I wanted to publish that 1:72 set, whose permission would I need?
« Last Edit: July 24, 2018, 05:56:47 am by steelpillow »
Cheers.