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Author Topic: Littoral Combat Ship - Freedom/Independence  (Read 143666 times)

Offline Creative

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Re: Littoral Combat Ship - Freedom/Independence
« Reply #30 on: February 27, 2013, 07:41:38 pm »
I hope Independence gets a paint job too because the current unpainted aluminum looks terrible.

Offline Grey Havoc

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Offline 2IDSGT

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Re: Littoral Combat Ship - Freedom/Independence
« Reply #32 on: March 18, 2013, 05:50:04 am »
http://www.defensenews.com/article/20130317/DEFREG02/303170001/U-S-Navy-Weighs-Halving-LCS-Order
HOLY SH!T!!!  Someone finally realized LCS is a toothless, under-crewed car-ferry and that Burkes aren't big enough to handle future requirements.  What common sense will they come up with next?!  Ramps on the America-class LHAs?  Upping FRP plans for the F-35?  Further F-22 development/production?  Get serious about the CUDA missile?  Deleting the unmanned (aka land-itself-in-Iran) option on LRS-B?

Online Arjen

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Re: Littoral Combat Ship - Freedom/Independence
« Reply #33 on: March 21, 2013, 01:38:21 am »
If modularity is so important to LCS, have its designers considered fitting Danish StanFlex modules? Or some derivative?

Offline 2IDSGT

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Re: Littoral Combat Ship - Freedom/Independence
« Reply #34 on: March 21, 2013, 02:16:14 am »
If modularity is so important to LCS, have its designers considered fitting Danish StanFlex modules? Or some derivative?
Looks too late for that.  The LCS modular concept would appear to be much-less integral (simply CONEXs shoved into the well-deck).


Online Arjen

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Re: Littoral Combat Ship - Freedom/Independence
« Reply #35 on: March 21, 2013, 02:53:16 am »
Looks too late for that. The LCS modular concept would appear to be much-less integral (simply CONEXs shoved into the well-deck)
That's what I was afraid of. About it being late: StanFlex has been around since the eighties, modules are in use, from missile launchers through SIGINT to VDS. Somebody in the LCS program must have been aware of its existence. Why do nothing with it?

Offline Grey Havoc

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Re: Littoral Combat Ship - Freedom/Independence
« Reply #36 on: March 21, 2013, 02:58:10 am »
Looks too late for that. The LCS modular concept would appear to be much-less integral (simply CONEXs shoved into the well-deck)
That's what I was afraid of. About it being late: StanFlex has been around since the eighties, modules are in use, from missile launchers through SIGINT to VDS. Somebody in the LCS program must have been aware of its existence. Why do nothing with it?

Oh, for the same reasons that the Raytheon LCS design wasn't selected in preference to the two disasters that were, I'd say.
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Offline TomS

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Re: Littoral Combat Ship - Freedom/Independence
« Reply #37 on: March 21, 2013, 05:48:02 am »
Re: Raytheon's LCS.   I didn't get a lot of warm fuzzies at the idea of a carbon fiber hull twice the size of the previous largest carbon fiber warship. 

Offline 2IDSGT

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Re: Littoral Combat Ship - Freedom/Independence
« Reply #38 on: March 21, 2013, 10:55:44 am »
Re: Raytheon's LCS.   I didn't get a lot of warm fuzzies at the idea of a carbon fiber hull twice the size of the previous largest carbon fiber warship.

Neither would I anymore...


Offline RP1

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Re: Littoral Combat Ship - Freedom/Independence
« Reply #39 on: March 22, 2013, 12:04:01 pm »
Quote
That's what I was afraid of. About it being late: StanFlex has been around since the eighties, modules are in use, from missile launchers through SIGINT to VDS. Somebody in the LCS program must have been aware of its existence. Why do nothing with it?


STANFLEX is an encapsulation of the range of weapon systems required by the RDN at the time of its' introduction, so - in it's precise form - would not necessarily be applicable to LCS. IIRC I have somewhere a STANFLEX presentation that was specifically produced for a USN LCS industry day or similar.


The two LCS ships have two forms of modularity:


1. The mission bay & hangar can support embarked modules - mostly something around ISO container sizes, generally to support deployable systems such as UxVs. This is effectively what is being done with manned aviation anyway - Merlin uses a mostly modular support infrastructure and IIRC CVF / QEC will do too.


2. Both ships have STANFLEX-esque module bays in the hull & superstructure (I think the monohull only has them in the superstructure). The NETFIRES missiles would have been fitted from one such module, and the 30mm guns are fitted in one.


The big difference between these and STANFLEX, or course, is that the RDN knew what was going to be put in the modules and so could develop a precise physical specification by working out the required envelope. (Albeit with some brilliantly simple modifications e.g. the change from 8 to 6 MK48 silos). Inherent in this is the acceptance that "that's the way it is and that's they way it always will be".


The LCS modular system seems to have been developed in parallel with an initial set of weapons systems and ahead of those that may eventually be carried by the ship, so is a bit more problematic, as it becomes a limiting factor, rather than an interface mechanism.


Regards,


RP1
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Offline RP1

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Re: Littoral Combat Ship - Freedom/Independence
« Reply #40 on: March 22, 2013, 12:14:34 pm »
Quote
Neither would I anymore...


The problems start at launch. Shorter ships such as Visby and the Indonesian trimaran can have hullform proportions and interactions with the seaway that mean that the most significant load case for the hullform structural design may not in fact be longitudinal bending, as is the case for a larger hullform. In some cases, the local loading due to engine installations etc may be far more significant.


This means that unconventional materials such as composites can be used as the bending loads are much less severe. Build a frigate out of composites and suddenly we are using the materials in a new way, where the anisotropic nature of composite strength, fatigue resistance etc will greatly complicate structural design.


Of course, this is not to say that one could not build a large vessel from composites - rather that it increases the risk, and thus expense, associated with doing so.


Regards,


RP1
"Just your standard-issue big gun."
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Online Arjen

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Re: Littoral Combat Ship - Freedom/Independence
« Reply #41 on: March 22, 2013, 12:35:07 pm »
Just the sort of answers I was hoping for. Thanks.

Offline Grey Havoc

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Re: Littoral Combat Ship - Freedom/Independence
« Reply #42 on: March 23, 2013, 02:44:57 am »
The sole imperative of a government, once instituted, is to survive.

Offline Creative

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Re: Littoral Combat Ship - Freedom/Independence
« Reply #43 on: March 23, 2013, 09:58:51 am »
NLOS-LS Mission Module.

Offline Grey Havoc

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Re: Littoral Combat Ship - Freedom/Independence
« Reply #44 on: March 31, 2013, 02:38:43 pm »
There are parts of this, including the UISS, that seem to be directly LCS related: http://www.dtic.mil/descriptivesum/Y2013/Navy/stamped/0603502N_4_PB_2013.pdf
The sole imperative of a government, once instituted, is to survive.