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Author Topic: German EMW. A.9 / A.10  (Read 13651 times)

Offline TsrJoe

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German EMW. A.9 / A.10
« on: January 09, 2009, 03:43:28 am »
DELETED POST (please remove from the thread)
« Last Edit: May 08, 2009, 02:39:16 am by TsrJoe »
...'excuse me mister, is that plane for real'...!!!

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Re: German EMW. A.9 / A.10
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2009, 05:51:08 am »
Not fully faired. What you're seeing is the chine-like wings of the original A-9 planform. I'd like to know what the source is for that drawing, though... I've seen it before, but I don't know if it's post-war or not.
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Offline Grzesio

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Re: German EMW. A.9 / A.10
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2009, 06:32:45 am »
I've always thought so - but I think there's a Verkleidung leader pointing at this line?

Regards

Grzesio

Offline shaba

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Re: German EMW. A.9 / A.10
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2009, 08:21:44 pm »
just a thought, was there any suggestion of the A.10 proper being developed as a weapon without the A.9 upper stage?
yes I've read that the the A.10 was originally designed to deliver a 4,000lbs warhead to 500 miles iirc.

Offline Michel Van

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Re: German EMW. A.9 / A.10
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2009, 08:18:58 am »
i found this year ago in internet

i think this is real
because it show a 6 x A4 engine with nozzle
proposed by walter Thiel

and it show as propellants,  Salbei and Gasöl

Gasöl = synthetic Gasoline from coal
Salbei = Nitric acid
there were two version for German rocketengine
S-Stoff = 98% Nitric acid and 4% Iron chloride
SV-stoff = 90-98% fuming nitric acid and 2-10% Sulfuric acid.


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Offline Justo Miranda

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Re: German EMW. A.9 / A.10
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2009, 09:58:37 am »
From "The Birth of the missile" by Ernst Klee and Otto Merk
George Harrap Ed. 1965

Offline Michel Van

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Re: German EMW. A.9 / A.10
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2009, 11:19:36 am »
at last bigger Picture !

THANKS JUSTO  :D

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Offline Grif

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Re: German EMW. A.9 / A.10
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2009, 09:54:24 am »
The second drawing above may have been the inspiration for this kit:

http://renax.club.fr/sharkit/A9A10/A9A10.htm

Grif

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Re: German EMW. A.9 / A.10
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2009, 10:06:17 am »
i found this year ago in internet

i think this is real
because it show a 6 x A4 engine with nozzle

It's a fairly silly concept. It'd be vastly easier to simply have six separate engines than to try to gang six engines together, and have them exhaust into a common nozzle.

Now, if the six engines were, instead, ganged *around* a common nozzle, that'd form an aerospike, and might be worth doing (but probably not for an ICBM).
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Offline Michel Van

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Re: German EMW. A.9 / A.10
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2009, 10:40:05 am »

It's a fairly silly concept. It'd be vastly easier to simply have six separate engines than to try to gang six engines together, and have them exhaust into a common nozzle.

Now, if the six engines were, instead, ganged *around* a common nozzle, that'd form an aerospike, and might be worth doing (but probably not for an ICBM).

your absolute Right !
this was a Idea by walter Thiel
the common nozzle look logical if you use jet vane for Control the rocket flight
but  Thiel cont could not finish his work
he was kilt during bomberraid on Penemunde august 1943


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Offline Grzesio

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Re: German EMW. A.9 / A.10
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2009, 12:52:51 am »
It was not a simple common nozzle for six engines - there was an additional low pressure combustion chamber formed by the main nozzle. Thrust of this powerplant is given as 180 000 t, i.e. some 17 500 t more than six single engines.

Regards

Grzesio
« Last Edit: January 23, 2009, 12:54:52 am by Grzesio »

Offline agricola64

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Re: German EMW. A.9 / A.10
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2009, 03:09:32 am »

It's a fairly silly concept. It'd be vastly easier to simply have six separate engines than to try to gang six engines together, and have them exhaust into a common nozzle.

Now, if the six engines were, instead, ganged *around* a common nozzle, that'd form an aerospike, and might be worth doing (but probably not for an ICBM).

your absolute Right !
this was a Idea by walter Thiel
the common nozzle look logical if you use jet vane for Control the rocket flight
but  Thiel cont could not finish his work
he was killed during bomberraid on Penemunde august 1943

i once read (and if i can rmember the source i will post it) that the development of the fuel injection system of the A-4 engine was such a pain in the ass that it was decided - to reduce development time - to use the existing a-4 engines as "fuel injectors" / preburners for the much larger engine of the a-9/a-10

possibly even running some of them fuel rich and the other oxydiser rich to get proper combustion in the the main engine

Offline Justo Miranda

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Re: German EMW. A.9 / A.10
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2009, 09:51:12 am »
Tandem venturi !

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Re: German EMW. A.9 / A.10
« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2009, 11:10:44 am »
Tandem venturi !

Almost never a good idea.
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Re: German EMW. A.9 / A.10
« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2009, 11:26:33 am »

i once read (and if i can rmember the source i will post it) that the development of the fuel injection system of the A-4 engine was such a pain in the ass that it was decided - to reduce development time - to use the existing a-4 engines as "fuel injectors" / preburners for the much larger engine of the a-9/a-10


It was not a simple common nozzle for six engines - there was an additional low pressure combustion chamber formed by the main nozzle.

The A-4 (V-2) engine was made by ganging a number of "burner cups" together. The individual cups - which were integrated fuel/oxidizer injectors - were developed individually; once the bugs were worked out and adequate combustion efficiency was established, putting a number of them together in a single change was an easy way to get much higher thrust with less development headache. You can see the cups here:




However, what's shown in the odd A-10 ganged engine diagram is quite different. This very likely would have involved *more* development effort than designing a new engine that used the complete injector faces of A-4 engines as its own "burner cups." Having multiple supersonic throats is a recipe for disaster, as is having a high temperature pressure chamber of such an unusual geometry.

Thrust greater than the sum of it's parts is likely due in part to having a higher expansion ratio than for the original A-4 engine.
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And so the endless circle of life comes to an end, meaningless and grim. Why did they live, and why did they die? No reason. Two hundred million years of evolution snuffed out, for in the end Nature is horrific and teaches us nothing